Moshkito
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 11:20:25
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codamedia
None of this makes any sense.... a password is the first line of defense and is only there to prevent the casual theft of the product or loss of a product. It is only there to stop the average person, not experts. DATA on an iphone is easy to retrieve, password or not. The Feds know how to get that data... I have no doubt they already have it.
...
BS, is my comment. Admins and folks in the know, are already "inside" that software and they do not need passwords to "get in" ... once they are inside their system. This was the case with email situations and many other fixes in the old days of Internet Technical support. Apple can get into their phones anytime they want to ... if they can't, and they accidentally create a problem, they can not fix it, and waste a whole OS because of it ... which is stupid and a serious waste of money and time. Apple can get into it, by snapping their fingers ... the problem being ... that it takes away the illusion that no one can break in to your phone, your bathroom, or your stool pipes! That "illusion" is the issue, not the actual doing it. But if Apple loses this, Microsoft is next and then ... and then ... and then ... and before you know it ... security is the biggest peepeepiss joke ever! AND, on top of it, the government will continue lying to you, and you think they are truthful! We have a credibility issue either way we look at it!
post edited by Moshkito - 2016/02/20 11:36:39
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 11:45:47
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It does not matter what the issue is ..real or imagined . History has proven time and time again that when peoples rights are taken away ...bad things happen  to Millions Kenny
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sharke
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 11:47:09
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Kamikaze
Heh heh. That Milk The Cow guy is from my old home town and is friends with a lot of my old friends. He's a bit of a dick sometimes, for instance he chose David Bowie's death to start ranting about him being a pedophile, but he does have the odd comic moment like this.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Moshkito
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 11:50:31
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kennywtelejazz
... when peoples rights are taken away ...bad things happen to Millions
...
Try saying that in some other areas of the world ... there is no such thing as "rights" ... it's an illusion, and it always was! However, it's nice that we have a Constitution, that ... many lawyers and judges and what not love to try and break every day! And most of the public in America won't vote those folks out of office!
post edited by Moshkito - 2016/02/20 12:06:27
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 12:05:38
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☄ Helpfulby jamesg1213 2016/02/20 12:25:47
Who the eff do you think you are talking too ?... I am a Citizen of the Universe Don't even attempt to lecture me on what is happening in this world You need to keep politics out of it ....I did I am very proud of my blood line and where I come from  I am part Cuban and American Indian from my mothers slide .. Those two examples alone should give you a clue to back the eff off ... Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/20 12:34:16
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craigb
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 12:21:20
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If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 12:54:23
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craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
In This Galaxy there are only two types of Aliens that leave their home planet to visit The Planet Earth Type one , Insanely gifted and multi talented extraterrestrial beings that come to Earth to lift the consciousnesses of the planet and the people of Earth VIA creative expression in Science, Literature , The Arts, Humanitarian Efforts , ect ect .. Type Two , All the A hole 's they wanted to get off their own planet so they could restore the balance and peace to their home planet  I know which type of Alien I am .... What type are you ? Kenny
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drewfx1
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 12:58:13
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Either there is a back door to get the encryption key needed to decrypt the data - which the government can get surely get at - or there isn't. If you don't have the decryption key you need to throw brute force at it which requires massive computing power and time. Depending on the strength of the encryption, perhaps more power and time than is convenient or even feasible. If there is a back door, this raises some interesting questions: 1. How is it that Apple could get at it and the government can't - unless they have backup stored somewhere outside of the phone? Are you telling me no one in the hugest security apparatus in the history of the world has bothered to look at this problem until now? Or does Apple have a back door, but it's secure enough that the government can't get past it? 2. What the $%@# is Apple, or any other corporation, doing defeating the purpose of encryption by putting a back door in for their own purposes? Are people really saying that they're concerned about the government having access to their private data, but if it's big corporation, then hey it's OK? 
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Moshkito
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 13:36:55
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kennywtelejazz
Who the eff do you think you are talking too ?...
I am a Citizen of the Universe
...
Agreed! I guess that takes away the individual rights for people and different countries! Hahaha!!!!! ROFLLLLLLL
Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 13:56:55
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mumpcake
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 17:24:23
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drewfx1
bitflipper
Apple designed it so that after 10 failed attempts everything on the phone gets automatically deleted. A good design, IMO.
Since when is it impossible to get at data except through the OS?
I tend to think this is more about people being lazy than anything else. Or maybe it is a ruse - if Apple wins all the idiots might think their data is safe and not do any basic due diligence.
Or maybe they just can't figure out how to get the stupid phone open.
Yes, like they couldn't have gone through the guy's cellular provider to get this.
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 19:25:34
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craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
My home planet has been destroyed. I'm never going home again. I'm sitting here in Limbo... How about everybody chill for a moment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRoJyaZW6SAand then we can get back to the serious stuff. Jesse Q. Screed
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craigb
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 19:40:45
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Jesse Screed
craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
My home planet has been destroyed. I'm never going home again.
I'm sitting here in Limbo...
How about everybody chill for a moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRoJyaZW6SA
and then we can get back to the serious stuff.
Jesse Q. Screed
Wow, sorry to hear that. I've been to Limbo before, it's a dull and annoying place...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 20:02:05
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craigb
Jesse Screed
craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
My home planet has been destroyed. I'm never going home again.
I'm sitting here in Limbo...
How about everybody chill for a moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRoJyaZW6SA
and then we can get back to the serious stuff.
Jesse Q. Screed
Wow, sorry to hear that. I've been to Limbo before, it's a dull and annoying place...
Hey Craig, it's kind of like another place I've been recently.  But it's all I got Jesse Q. Screed
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tlw
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 20:07:41
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mumpcake
drewfx1
bitflipper
Apple designed it so that after 10 failed attempts everything on the phone gets automatically deleted. A good design, IMO.
Since when is it impossible to get at data except through the OS?
I tend to think this is more about people being lazy than anything else. Or maybe it is a ruse - if Apple wins all the idiots might think their data is safe and not do any basic due diligence.
Or maybe they just can't figure out how to get the stupid phone open.
Yes, like they couldn't have gone through the guy's cellular provider to get this.
Data is also encrypted during it's passage through the cellular/phone network, it also follows a different network route and protocol to voice or video calls. Otherwise it would be easy to get everyone's banking details etc. just by listening in to mobile phone transmissions with quite cheap and easily available gear. It isn't.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Ham N Egz
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 20:51:06
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Have we forgotten about Carnivore? The massive data center that "plugged into" the major carriers data centers and ran algorithms that searched for key words in emails, texts etc and tagged the origin and recipient
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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bapu
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/20 21:06:30
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craigb
Jesse Screed
craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
My home planet has been destroyed. I'm never going home again.
I'm sitting here in Limbo...
How about everybody chill for a moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRoJyaZW6SA
and then we can get back to the serious stuff.
Jesse Q. Screed
Wow, sorry to hear that. I've been to Limbo before, it's a dull and annoying place...
How low can you go?
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craigb
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 03:57:59
(permalink)
bapu
craigb
Jesse Screed
craigb
If this nonsense continues, I may just go back to my home planet!
My home planet has been destroyed. I'm never going home again.
I'm sitting here in Limbo...
How about everybody chill for a moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRoJyaZW6SA
and then we can get back to the serious stuff.
Jesse Q. Screed
Wow, sorry to hear that. I've been to Limbo before, it's a dull and annoying place...
How low can you go?
Beef? How low can you go? (Hear the cattle cry "Death row!")
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 03:58:28
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Thought I'd throw a little Gary Clail at ya.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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FakeItTillUmakeIt
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 14:28:38
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bitflipper
... Apple designed it so that after 10 failed attempts everything on the phone gets automatically deleted. A good design, IMO...
So, the data gets deleted. Then, they can do a forensic recovery for which technology they DO have available. I'm just saying.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 14:35:50
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/02/29 18:01:58
So... what I'm gathering from this enlightening conversation is this. If you have an iPhone and go out one night and meet a girl....and save her phone number into the phone...and then proceed to get knee crawling drunk... then decide to call her up the next day, but you're still pretty schloshed from the night before.... and you try several times to unlock the phone to retrieve the number... but being inebriated, you blow the attempts... then lose count as one might do, and try again several times... at the magic 10th try... you will brick wall the phone and everything gets deleted and no one on the planet can help you? Sounds like a diabolical plan to sell more iPhones. All joking aside.... keep the govt out of our affairs as much as possible.... enforce some other laws that are currently on the books but being ignored and we would have less of this kind of chicanery (terror attacks and crime) in the first place.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2016/02/21 14:51:47
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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sharke
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 15:49:26
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FakeItTillUmakeIt
bitflipper
... Apple designed it so that after 10 failed attempts everything on the phone gets automatically deleted. A good design, IMO...
So, the data gets deleted. Then, they can do a forensic recovery for which technology they DO have available. I'm just saying.
Depends on how they delete it though. If it's just a garden variety delete where the data is still there but nothing points to it, easy to recover that. However if it's a "hard" delete with one of those fancy schmancy Department of Defense erasing algorithms which write garbage over the top of your data with multiple passes (or even just zeros) then you have no chance of getting it back.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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drewfx1
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 16:13:00
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I don't know, but my guess would be that the 4 digit passcode that unlocks the phone allows the OS to access an encryption key specific to the phone itself stored in NVRAM somewhere, and what actually gets deleted is just this key.
And if there's a backup of the data outside of the phone (in the cloud or on your computer), it would encrypted separately and associated with your Apple account, not the phone.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Karyn
Ma-Ma
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 18:37:29
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2016/02/21 19:04:06
Why hack the phone?
All they need do is hack the guys hand (off) and touch a finger on the home button..... unlocked..
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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BobF
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 19:07:59
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☄ Helpfulby jbow 2016/02/29 18:02:29
Karyn
Why hack the phone?
"They" prolly figger this is a good time establish a precedent for future reference
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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DrLumen
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 20:56:38
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I am not a fan of Apple but they do need to make a stand on this issue.
I find it hard to believe that someone in the FBI or NSA or CIA or some other nefarious acronym can't pull the storage media out and simply read the encrypted data. Then the gov't can try as long as they want to try to break the encryption. Likewise, I wouldn't have a problem with apple giving the FBI the encrypted files. Why the acronym or trump expects Apple to have some magic bullet to break encryption is confusing to me.
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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craigb
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 21:32:12
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 How I hack iPhones.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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drewfx1
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/21 23:03:05
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DrLumen
I find it hard to believe that someone in the FBI or NSA or CIA or some other nefarious acronym can't pull the storage media out and simply read the encrypted data. Then the gov't can try as long as they want to try to break the encryption. Likewise, I wouldn't have a problem with apple giving the FBI the encrypted files. Why the acronym or trump expects Apple to have some magic bullet to break encryption is confusing to me.
I was thinking about this, and my guess is: 1. The FBI, whose jurisdiction it is, lacks the capability to either do what it is asking Apple to do or to throw the massive computing power at it required to break the encryption. 2. The CIA and/or other groups can surely hack it easily. They are likely sitting there mocking the FBI as we speak, much as McAfee did in the link posted earlier. And so are the Russians, the Chinese, the Israelis and probably lots of other people. 3. The FBI simply doesn't think there's anything of enough value on the (employer issued) phone to warrant getting the CIA or other national security agencies to help. They already must have all the phone records and whatnot, and how dumb can a would-be terrorist be to use a employer issued phone for nefarious activities? So it's just a fishing expedition to see if anything of value happens to turn up somehow, and the easiest way was to just ask Apple for help. Apple and other companies have assisted with getting (more readily available) data in the past, so they might not have anticipated that Apple would say no - especially given the circumstances of the case.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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tlw
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/22 00:38:11
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Karyn
Why hack the phone?
All they need do is hack the guys hand (off) and touch a finger on the home button..... unlocked..
Nope, doesn't work like that. Not outside TV and movies anyway. The fingerprint readers (not just on iphones but pretty much every modern reader) use at least three things. One is the whorl pattern of the fingerprint. No problem dead or alive. But they also use a touch-screen style capacitive detector that picks up electrical charge on contact with skin. Doesn't work if finger is dead or the charge is wrong for skin contact. Can perhaps be fooled by a tablet stylus, but tablet styluses don't have fingerprints. And even if they did, the detectors also look at the pattern of small blood vessels just under the skin. Which doesn't work unless blood is actually flowing and the finger is alive. Iris and retina recognition systems are similar in that it only works if presented with a living, working eye which is in good order and hasn't been damaged by removal (sorry, gruesome thought...).
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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Karyn
Ma-Ma
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Re: Boycott Apple?
2016/02/22 03:46:15
(permalink)
Why confuse the issue with facts?
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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