Brain lag... How to use a 3rd-party sequencer inside of Sonar X1/X2?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean but I think you want to click the input (or maybe output) of the track and select whatever it is you are trying to use. 

Sorry if that was vague. If youa re using a controller be sure to click the Input Echo button too.

You do know that Sonar is a MIDI sequencer right?

hey rivers - totally get why you want to do this... cthulhu comes to mind...
a word of warning though.  i've got an x2 project with couple of instances of reaktor doing lfo and envelope-based control changes to different synths - so, 2 instances of reaktor midi output running into two different midi tracks on different channels for recording purposes.  problem is, sonar confuses the two instances of reaktor and records the output of instance one on both midi tracks.  i have to shut down all synths that enable midi output except for one when recording otherwise the whole thing is a mess.  i'm still testing it out but you might want to give that a shot just to make sure your setup is running ok with it.

my config is
reaktor 1 cc 4 output-->> midi track a on channel 2
reaktor 2 cc 22 output -->> midi track b on channel 4
midi track a -->> rapture
midi track b -->> dimension pro

i'd be interested to know if you have the same issues with the plug you're using and would be more than grateful if you could check it out before i file a problem report.


cheers and i look forward to trying out KC at some point.

swamptooth


hey rivers - totally get why you want to do this... cthulhu comes to mind...
a word of warning though.  i've got an x2 project with couple of instances of reaktor doing lfo and envelope-based control changes to different synths - so, 2 instances of reaktor midi output running into two different midi tracks on different channels for recording purposes.  problem is, sonar confuses the two instances of reaktor and records the output of instance one on both midi tracks.  i have to shut down all synths that enable midi output except for one when recording otherwise the whole thing is a mess.  i'm still testing it out but you might want to give that a shot just to make sure your setup is running ok with it.

my config is
reaktor 1 cc 4 output-->> midi track a on channel 2
reaktor 2 cc 22 output -->> midi track b on channel 4
midi track a -->> rapture
midi track b -->> dimension pro

i'd be interested to know if you have the same issues with the plug you're using and would be more than grateful if you could check it out before i file a problem report.


cheers and i look forward to trying out KC at some point.

I'm just getting started using Cream (it's actually still in beta) , but I'll post later as I find out more about it.  I do like the interface, and it sounds like my ultimate goal is going to be somewhat similar to yours ~ in my case, I plan to use the CC track programmability to run through an external MIDI-to-CV convertor, then route to some other analog gear for synchronized CV control.
 
Basically, I plan to use it in lieu of an expensive external analog sequencer (totally off the table now, thanks to the upcoming USG budget cuts!), and since it's a VST plugin, I should be able to run it inside a minimal VST host on a low-end netbook that can't handle the overhead of a DAW like Sonar.
 
Randy

sharke

John


You do know that Sonar is a MIDI sequencer right?

 You do know that there are 3rd party plugs with sequencing functionality that Sonar doesn't have, right?  

No actually. What are they? What would that be? 


What benefit is there in the OP's plugin over what Sonar offers? And most plugis that have sequencing are synths that work stand alone as well as as a plugin. heck SD3 has patterns. I just would like to know why this is being asked about. 

John

sharke

John


You do know that Sonar is a MIDI sequencer right?

You do know that there are 3rd party plugs with sequencing functionality that Sonar doesn't have, right?  

No actually. What are they? What would that be? 


What benefit is there in the OP's plugin over what Sonar offers? And most plugis that have sequencing are synths that work stand alone as well as as a plugin. heck SD3 has patterns. I just would like to know why this is being asked about. 

Why worry about it? Different tools, different jobs, different workflows, different minds, different tastes. 

Just a quick look at the plugin in question is enough to see that it offers a different sequencing experience from that of Sonar. I mean at a glance, the ability to apply swing or transposition to a pattern in real time. And some people like the vertical bar style of sequencer, in which the vertical height of each bar represents velocity. It's convenient for drum patterns. In Sonar's step sequencer, the note triggers and the velocities are separated into their own rows. And the OP's plugin has some kind of chord functionality, in which you can trigger chords and their inversions with one note. 


Another example, why would anyone pay $250 for FXpansion's Geist, when you can theoretically make the same drum patterns in Sonar? 

Sorry if I come back to topic.
Here is, how I get a "midi-out-plugin" to work.
1. Insert  your Midi-out Plugin (something like thesys, cthulhu...), enable Midi-out in the options, while inserting.
2. Enable "echo" for this plugin
3. select your plugin  that becomes the target, something like zebra
4. ensure, that you see the I/O's, as Midi-in select the midi-out-plugin

Have fun

sharke

John

sharke

John


You do know that Sonar is a MIDI sequencer right?

You do know that there are 3rd party plugs with sequencing functionality that Sonar doesn't have, right?  

No actually. What are they? What would that be? 


What benefit is there in the OP's plugin over what Sonar offers? And most plugis that have sequencing are synths that work stand alone as well as as a plugin. heck SD3 has patterns. I just would like to know why this is being asked about. 

Why worry about it? Different tools, different jobs, different workflows, different minds, different tastes. 

Just a quick look at the plugin in question is enough to see that it offers a different sequencing experience from that of Sonar. I mean at a glance, the ability to apply swing or transposition to a pattern in real time. And some people like the vertical bar style of sequencer, in which the vertical height of each bar represents velocity. It's convenient for drum patterns. In Sonar's step sequencer, the note triggers and the velocities are separated into their own rows. And the OP's plugin has some kind of chord functionality, in which you can trigger chords and their inversions with one note. 


Another example, why would anyone pay $250 for FXpansion's Geist, when you can theoretically make the same drum patterns in Sonar? 

Sonar must be the only DAW in the world. Perhaps Giest is marketed for use in other DAWs? DAWs that don't have Sonar's MIDI facilities for creating MIDI. But then why not have a a dozen ways to create MIDI rather than just Sonar's measly 4 or 5.

I think that last post was a tad personal.  I did not notice John getting personal.  Someone in there fifties should not need to resort to "name calling".

Wow, I can NOT believe my thread got turned into this!! 
 
John -

Not doubting your contribution at all, but you seem awfully hung up on the fact that I have a desire to use a particular VST inside of Sonar!!

The reasoning that 'Sonar and/or the native Cakewalk plugins already does that' could probably apply to just about ANY 3rd-party plugin that ever gets asked about on this forum!!

As to WHY -
Well, it's certainly MY business, and I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation, regardless of how much you think this all "deserves some explanation"; that said, the reasons behind that can be found in posts # 8, 12, and 13.
 
As for whether or not it's a great idea ~
So far, it works exactly as I need it to, for MY own purposes, so yes, it IS a great idea!

Jeez dude -
let it go already...

rivers88

swamptooth


hey rivers - totally get why you want to do this... cthulhu comes to mind...
a word of warning though.  i've got an x2 project with couple of instances of reaktor doing lfo and envelope-based control changes to different synths - so, 2 instances of reaktor midi output running into two different midi tracks on different channels for recording purposes.  problem is, sonar confuses the two instances of reaktor and records the output of instance one on both midi tracks.  i have to shut down all synths that enable midi output except for one when recording otherwise the whole thing is a mess.  i'm still testing it out but you might want to give that a shot just to make sure your setup is running ok with it.

my config is
reaktor 1 cc 4 output-->> midi track a on channel 2
reaktor 2 cc 22 output -->> midi track b on channel 4
midi track a -->> rapture
midi track b -->> dimension pro

i'd be interested to know if you have the same issues with the plug you're using and would be more than grateful if you could check it out before i file a problem report.


cheers and i look forward to trying out KC at some point.

I'm just getting started using Cream (it's actually still in beta) , but I'll post later as I find out more about it.  I do like the interface, and it sounds like my ultimate goal is going to be somewhat similar to yours ~ in my case, I plan to use the CC track programmability to run through an external MIDI-to-CV convertor, then route to some other analog gear for synchronized CV control.
 
Basically, I plan to use it in lieu of an expensive external analog sequencer (totally off the table now, thanks to the upcoming USG budget cuts!), and since it's a VST plugin, I should be able to run it inside a minimal VST host on a low-end netbook that can't handle the overhead of a DAW like Sonar.
 
Randy

hey randy that sounds like a fun project.  when i was in college i was into industrial music and a friend of mine and i in the electronic music seminars decided to do a real industrial band by rigging power tools to supply cv to this big-ass modular moog in the studio.  good good fun! 
anyway one thing i would totally check out is combining lfotool with bidule (which can act as a small host) see this video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH2ELClxPQU
 
one of the things that i'm using right now is a combination of pure data, sonar and reaktor on 3 different networked machines (2 win laptops and an imac) to produce adaptive sound based on the outputs of each machine.  really easy kinda stuff to set up, so i think with cream (great price point too btw!) you'll have a great starting place.  i'd highly reccomend pure data http://puredata.info/downloads and native-instruments Reaktor because you can set up OSC output schemes that can get around certain midi limitations.
 
as for cake products the reason to have tools like this that you can use is so that things like lfos to control parameters in synths like dimension that do not have lfos natively hooked to them.  you can also route the midi out to something like loopmidi then hook the loopmidi output up to an autiomation lane via remote control so you can apply lfos and midi control to things like fxbin parameters or prochannel module controls.  the only thing i don't like about that method is that the automation lanes forget the remote control assignments every time i close the project, which is a major drag but whatever...
 
anyway good luck with the experiment and keep us updated!