ChristopherM
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Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
Sorry I can't be more forensic about this, but I have a new annoyance whereby from time-to-time the Insert Synth command is unavailable in the Synth Rack. As a workaround, I can go to the Plugins tab of the browser and drag and drop the synth into Track View. After this, the synth in question is visible in the Synth Rack, which then appears to behave as normal (except that Insert Synth ... remains greyed out). Insert Synth ... today was working normally, but then I attempted to select a different layout. Immediately, it became impossible to Insert Synth ... after that and this has persisted through a reboot. This made me suspect a corrupted layout file or something. I have had a look to see if there is anything abnormal-looking in the folder where the plugin layouts are stored but I see nothing unusual. It remains possible to select alternate layouts via the PlugIns tab of the Browser, in any event. Anybody experienced this and/or knows how to fix it?
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/02 11:08:50
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While attempting to understand what you're describing (I've always just double-clicked on the synth name in Browser/Plugins/Instruments), I came across inconsistencies between Sonar, Sonar Help and the Platinum reference manual. It's a mess and confusing. In the Synth rack, I have no "Insert Synths" menu item in "Synth Settings Menu" as described in the manual, nor do I have the "Insert Synths Options" menu item as described in Help (greyed out or not). But in any case (and described in both Help and the manual), doesn't the big at the top of the Synth rack do what you want ? It's called "Insert Synth". (Or is this what you're saying is greyed out ?)
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/02 11:47:47
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Thanks, Paul. You are correct. The gives access to Insert Synth ... and to Insert Rewire Device ... . The first is the one I'm talking about, but it's now greyed-out for me. It wasn't, but now it is. I've even run the latest Manchester installer again, but that has made no difference. Your method works for me still, so that's going to have to be the workaround for now.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/02 14:34:40
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OK, I fully understand now. Your "Insert Synth" menu item in the list you get after clicking on the "+" is greyed out. That's odd. I just took some time to learn the Plug-in Layouts functionality (which I'm now going make use of) and created several layouts in the process. I used the menu tree in question quite a bit and can't get "Insert Synth" to grey out. But I'm now scared it will ! I'm on Kingston if that makes a difference.
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/02 14:46:34
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Try removing all the entries from the Plug-in Menu Layout folder and Start SONAR. I believe this will default back to the original "Default All Plugins" layout.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 04:47:25
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Thanks, Steve. I cleared out the folder entirely as you suggested, but this hasn't improved matters. I also then created a new layout (a handful of tried-and-trusted VSTi s) via Plug-in Manager. This makes no difference either (although the new layout is perfectly usable via the PlugIns tab). It's not such a big deal as to make rolling back to an earlier release worthwhile, but it adds to the growing list of annoyances in Sonar, where something used to work but doesn't anymore.
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msorrels
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 07:03:26
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I've had this "bug" for months and months. Cakewalk support were of no help. There is another thread talking about it. All they need to do is explain to me how exactly that Insert Synth menu gets its data. I could then figure out why it isn't getting it. But all I got back from them was non-answers to simple questions. I was thinking I'd try installing Sonar on another computer just so I can dump the registry and see what is different from my main DAW.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 07:39:38
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Ah, that's interesting Matt. Can you by any chance remember at which update it broke? It seemed to break intermittently for me until the other day, after which it seems to have become permanent.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 10:06:53
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It looks like "Insert" / "Soft Synth" in the Sonar main menu and "Insert Soft Synth" in the FX bin use/build the same sub-menu as in the Browser. Are these not also greyed out ? The only obvious thing in the registry (there other stuff which I doubt has any significance) is the MenuLayoutsPath but that must be ok if other components and the PM can find the layouts.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/03 10:23:09
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 10:29:42
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I believe MenuLayoutsPath is used to look up where the custom layouts are stored. The registry keys which store the current active menus are in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR\Platinum\PluginMenuLayoutMRU- PluginBrowser
- PluginBrowserAudioEffects
- PluginBrowserSynths
- SynthRackSynths
If the default is empty, SONAR uses the "Default All Plug-ins" layout. At least, that is what happens based on my tests.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 10:44:45
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Thanks Steve for showing that there is another registry branch for Cakewalk that I didn't know about. There's a curious "MenuLayoutsDirty" (=0) entry under Cakewalk Plugin Manager. I wonder what that does. EDIT: And I also discovered an error in my Platinum branch, namely "EffectsChainArtworkFolder" still set to X1's folder, though this doesn't seem to prevent the new Platinum Effect Chains from finding their background graphics.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/03 11:11:08
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:29:36
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FWIW, I can see that Sonar is writing apparently correct entries to the registry by selecting a layout in each of the locations where that can be done and then looking at the registry via regedit. Seems fine. The key SynthRackSynths is present but is empty, unsurprisingly.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:40:23
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ChristopherM The key SynthRackSynths is present but is empty, unsurprisingly.
Can you set it using the other insert synth menus ?
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:40:38
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Paul P There's a curious "MenuLayoutsDirty" (=0) entry under Cakewalk Plugin Manager. I wonder what that does. EDIT: And I also discovered an error in my Platinum branch, namely "EffectsChainArtworkFolder" still set to X1's folder, though this doesn't seem to prevent the new Platinum Effect Chains from finding their background graphics.
I have not looked at MenuLayoutsDirty. Dirty flags (if that is what it is) are often used to indicate a change in state to some data which has not been committed. For example the * next to the project name is the visual indicator the dirty flag is set on the project and the project differs from the project on disk. WRT EffectsChainArtworkFolder, yes I have noticed that too. Fortunately the data is fairly static. This is one of those things which results in problems when deleting old versions after installing a new one.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:43:05
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Interesting - having found the empty key, I wondered what would happen if I forced the key to point to a known good layout. So I forced it via Regedit, restarted Sonar, and Insert Synth was no longer greyed out and appeared to work as before. Next step was to attempt to select the default layout via Insert Synth in synth rack. That instantly failed, and the greyed-out was back. I looked again at the registry, and the key had been zapped to blank. So I forced it back to a valid layout, and Insert Synth was instantly available again - surprisingly, I didn't even have to restart Sonar. Subsequently, I have switched between various alternative layouts without problem, but as soon as I select the default, the failure returns. So it looks like some kind of buggy handling of the default layout is causing Sonar to blow a fuse.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:44:53
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I'd mark this solved, except that having to have Regedit constantly open as a companion to Sonar doesn't seem like acceptable workflow to me.
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:47:26
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ChristopherM FWIW, I can see that Sonar is writing apparently correct entries to the registry by selecting a layout in each of the locations where that can be done and then looking at the registry via regedit. Seems fine. The key SynthRackSynths is present but is empty, unsurprisingly.
As Paul suggests, you might be able to recover by setting the default value. The value when not empty is a fully qualified layout file name. This makes me wonder if the VST Inventory has something in it which causes "Default All Plug-ins" layout build process to fail. The VST Inventory may be rebuilt with the Reset button in Preferences > File > VST Settings. Before rebuilding the inventory, I would export that portion of the registry. It a Reset fixes the problem, I would send the registry export to Cakewalk.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:50:21
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@Paul P: It is not set by the other menus, because each seems to have its own MRU entry, which makes sens I suppose. That said, I can think of one MRU that Sonar seems to share for all kinds of things annoyingly, which is the reason when you attempt to open a Pro Channel Preset after opening a Synth Preset, you are invited to find the PCP in the folder which holds the given Synth Presets. This one is so annoying that I often set up a plugin from scratch rather than try to find the preset! But that's another story ...
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:51:45
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While I was posting #17 I see you figured out forcing the layout works. My guess is the VST Inventory. Export the HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory to save what it currently looks like before reseting (if you want to help CW figure it out).
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 11:55:50
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@steve cook: There doesn't seem to be a specific value for the key that means default, so presumably a blank key is taken as "use default". It may be that my default is corrupt and I notice that my Plug-in Menu Layouts folder contains a file called default.pgl.tmp - can you kindly confirm that this file exists in your setup? There is no other file except for layout files that I have explicitly created, each of which can be opened successfully in Plug-in Manager.
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 12:04:19
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Yes, an empty default tells SONAR use the "Default - All Plug-ins" layout. At least that is my best guess based on tests. The default layouts are built on the fly. There is a tmp written into my menu layout folder. Looking at the tmp, it appears to be the "Default - All Plug-ins" layout for the effects.
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 12:04:37
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@steve cook: your #19 raises another thought. For a week or two, I have from time-to-time had a CLSID query pop up when I try to access various plug-in handling areas (sometimes even as the file opens). This always identifies three alternatives for Boost11, and I simply confirm that the third alternative is correct. I confess that I did not give this much thought, as the resolution was quick and easy, and Boost11 is in my default template so is loaded (albeit not always active) in most of my projects. When I have had these CLSID errors before they have typically been to do with an obsolete plugin where the replacement is already present in my system. Could this be anything to do with this new corruption of my MRU key and/or is there any easyish fix?
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scook
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 12:19:22
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IDK if the CLSID issue is related or not. I am guessing about the cause of the layout issue. A VST reset will rebuild the VST Inventory but can do nothing with the CLSIDs stored in projects. May want to review your scan path. Have you messed with the plug-ins in the excluded lists?
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 12:46:43
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The VST reset has not changed the grey-out behaviour (nor has it fixed the CLSID issue, but you predicted that it wouldn't). The scan paths seem OK - the only one that seemed unfamiliar to me is a Cake Internal path, which seems mainly to contain PC modules, so I guess that's OK. I have never attempted to set a plug to Excluded or vice versa and the ones that are excluded are all Cake items that are themselves contained in the Internal path - I vaguely recall seeing a forum post some time ago that said this is normal and a byproduct of some change deliberately engineered by the Bakers (I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of your posts, Steve!). I much appreciate your help on this, but I'm just going to adopt the workaround of never selecting "default" for the synth rack. It's all more Dark Star than 2001, it seems.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 14:26:15
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ChristopherM It is not set by the other menus, because each seems to have its own MRU entry, which makes sens I suppose.
If I make changes to the main menu "Insert / Soft Synth" plugin layout, it is reflected in the "Synth Rack / Insert Synth" menu and the "Replace Synth" menu in the Browser Synth Tab menu (and vice versa). So I wonder if you can 'repair' your Synth Rack menu by going through the main menu or the browser Synth tab menu. Making a change in any of these three menus causes both "SynthRackSynths" and "PluginBrowserSynths" MRUs to be updated to the same layout file. This is not true for the FX bin which uses the "TrackSynths" MRU. I can't find what the "Synths" MRU is used for.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/03 14:41:13
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 15:00:39
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Interesting, but not what I am experiencing. The MRUs reflect the different layouts last used, so it is possible to have different layouts in use almost simultaneously. It only goes wrong for me if I select "default" in the Synth Rack.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/03 15:02:31
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ChristopherM Interesting, but not what I am experiencing. The MRUs reflect the different layouts last used, so it is possible to have different layouts in use almost simultaneously. It only goes wrong for me if I select "default" in the Synth Rack.
Which update are you on, Christopher ? I'm on Kingston, and what I described is definitely what is happening on my system. EDIT : I should add that during all the playing around I did to figure this out, it occured (only) once that the main menu "Insert / Soft Synth" refused to upate its layout no matter how many times I selected another layout through its "Plug-in Layouts" submenu. Changing the layout from one of the other two menus fixed it and it hasn't misbehaved since.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/03 15:35:04
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ChristopherM
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/04 03:39:05
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Paul - I am on Manchester 1. I can't recall which update first brought this issue, which I suppose is because the fuse only blows when I select "default" layout. I don't typically do this, because I have specific layouts developed to suit my purposes. I have checked again how my various MRU keys are updating and there is no question that they respectively show the latest used layout file instantly it is selected in the given part of Sonar. I can't seem to find a key for the ReWire tab, but that may be because nor can I find a way of creating a layout file for ReWire devices - this is anyway academic, because the only one I have installed presently is Melodyne. I don't have a key called Synths, so I can't comment on that, but I do have one called PluginBrowser, which has remained blank throughout. All of the others are pretty much self-explanatory and work as I'd expect. [Interlude: The Cynic's Lament. Lugubre, ma non troppo] I vaguely recall when Sonar was something that I used for making music. These days, I seem to spend more time artificially applying stimuli to randomly uncovered inputs and then looking for randomly exposed outputs, then using WTF theory to discern what is going wrong. That, and installing updates, which rarely actually add any functionality that I ever use.
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Paul P
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/04 13:48:48
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Christopher, I think I've finally figured out why we've not been experiencing the same thing. The trick is all about the "Instruments" button in the [PlugIns] tab of the Browser, the one which turns blue when selected. If this button is selected/blue, no matter if the [PlugIns] tab of the Browser is displayed and the button is then visible, or not, as when you've selected the [Synth] or [Media] tabs, what I've described occurs. If the "Instruments" button is not selected, visibly or hidden behind the other Browser tabs, things work as they 'should' and are what you have described. It remains though that three submenus always show the same plugin layout list. These should not be the same as the plugin layout selected for the Browser's [PlugIns] tab, but if the "Instruments" button is selected, they will be. I've posted a step-by-step description of the issue in the Problem Reports forum. Sorry to have invaded your thread. I ended up doing so trying to figure out what you were experiencing and encountering this other problem. You should probably also submit a problem report detailing steps to reproduce your disabled Insert Synth menu item.
post edited by Paul P - 2016/02/04 14:26:58
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msorrels
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Re: Browser Synth Rack: Insert Synth ... greyed out.
2016/02/04 14:00:37
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My insert synth never comes back, no matter what I choose for a menu layout or how I modify the registry. But I do think they are related. Here's the original thread on this (maybe some clues there) http://forum.cakewalk.com/Insert-synth-greyed-out-m3244558.aspxIt's been happening since at least June, 2015. A few things about mine, Insert Synth from the top/main menu does open a synth menu. It's not quite right though, because its manage layout options don't appear to actually work. When I pick any of the layout management options in the first item in the menu, the menu closes but nothing happens. The only way to change the layout in use is to right click on an audio track and pick insert synth from there. That version of the synth dialog, looks the same as what the main/top menu's Insert->Soft Synth looks like, but it actually works and I can change the layout. Which then does change the layout that the top menu uses. But nothing I pick causes the plus sign on the Synth panel in the browser to enable, Insert Synth is always gray. This doesn't really effect my ability to use Sonar, since I can use the PlugIns panel in the browser to insert synths just fine. And the top level menu, while its layout options don't work, does work to insert synths also. My guess has always been it's some side effect of having many versions of Sonar on this same machine. I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar for a long time (my current store history goes about to Sonar 6 but I've been using Cakewalk even longer). This computer (built in 2010) has had every version of Sonar since 8.5 installed on it. I currently have 2025 plugins according to the toast popup when I start Sonar (it's not really that high since I install 32 and 64 bit of everything plus VST2 and VST3, but it's still a large number). No amount of re-scanning/resetting VSTs has seemed to help this issue though. This is a bug in Sonar, of that I'm sure, but there is no way to get through to anyone at Cakewalk that could actually look at why the Insert Synth in the Synth Rack is different than any of the other Insert Synths.
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