Bubba's Pointless Pondering

Talent vs. Effort
 
In our youth, we're often encouraged to pursue areas where we exhibit some form of "Talent".  For many of us in this forum, that probably included music and other arts.  Some were told that their Talent was so significant that their eventual success was all but assured.  Others did not appear to have the same gift.  They struggled to learn the concepts.  They spent weeks learning skills their more talented peers picked up almost intuitively with minimal effort. 
 
In time, the effort paid off as hard-working musicians began to play with skill and artistry equal to or even greater than their naturally "gifted" counterparts.  I've been able to play with a wide variety of musicians, both talented and otherwise.  It seems to me that when someone grows up with the belief that their success is dependent on their Talent, they inevitably fail to realize their potential.   When they are taught that they must submit to the disciplines of their art, Talent becomes nothing more than a headstart and the real accomplishments are proportional to the effort expended.
 
Today, I'm pondering the wisdom of teaching younger musicians the benefits of persistence, hard work, and discipline over talent.  Of course, that only works if I demonstrate those values myself...

 I've been able to play with a wide variety of musicians, both talented and otherwise*. 

*Bapu

UbiquitousBubba


Talent vs. Effort 
  
 
Today, I'm pondering the wisdom of teaching younger musicians the benefits of persistence, hard work, and discipline over talent.  Of course, that only works if I demonstrate those values myself...

I have 3 little ones (4, 2yrs, & 2months old) and I completely agree with putting them through hard work, persistence, & discipline over talent. These 3 things will be carried out in life (no matter what they do) and even if they lost their talent. My 4 yr old as well as the 2 yr old have been singing since they began to talk......and now is very comfortable singing variety of songs......most importantly.....IN KEY!! However, although I'm encouraging them to sing/play the piano etc...I make sure that they get used to the hard work, discipline, and be persistent in whatever they have to do. (I'm not interested in making them musical idols or pro musicians, but rather to be good children first and foremost blessed with a gifted talent(s)). Believe it or not, they enjoy watching re-runs of the Lawrence Welk show rather than their beloved Dora The Explorer.
Interestingly, I have an old Mills Brothers CD my dad gave me and my older one picked up singing "Up a lazy river" which isn't an easy song to sing (acapella) in key (at least for me). As all proud dads are, I'm also very happy with their progress (musically) but, there are more important lessons they'll have to focus on....     

UbiquitousBubba


Talent vs. Effort
 
In our youth, we're often encouraged to pursue areas where we exhibit some form of "Talent".  For many of us in this forum, that probably included music and other arts.  Some were told that their Talent was so significant that their eventual success was all but assured.  Others did not appear to have the same gift.  They struggled to learn the concepts.  They spent weeks learning skills their more talented peers picked up almost intuitively with minimal effort. 
 
In time, the effort paid off as hard-working musicians began to play with skill and artistry equal to or even greater than their naturally "gifted" counterparts.  I've been able to play with a wide variety of musicians, both talented and otherwise.  It seems to me that when someone grows up with the belief that their success is dependent on their Talent, they inevitably fail to realize their potential.   When they are taught that they must submit to the disciplines of their art, Talent becomes nothing more than a headstart and the real accomplishments are proportional to the effort expended.
 
Today, I'm pondering the wisdom of teaching younger musicians the benefits of persistence, hard work, and discipline over talent.  Of course, that only works if I demonstrate those values myself...

"Pondering" is never pointless. Many times we discover that our ponderances lead to nowhere and the benefit there is we know not to go there again. We are all pondering the big picture and the form of it changes constantly. What was incomplete yesterday may change and be complete tomorrow. Judging the business climate of music and relating it to talent is a difficult thing. The effort expended into what direction and style and the ability to hook up with the venues and business to promote and circulate-sell-profit are a lot of technical work that, while associated with music aren't really at all.

Hi,

There was a mystic, that was quite fun and cynical and used to have a lot of fun and wrote a massive autobiography that has some of the best jokes around ... and one I always liked from him was ... "potential is crap".  ... and his line "underbelly of mediocrity" still is one of my favorites as well!

It's been 30 years since I read any of his stuff, but those words always stuck.

It's easy so see why.

Potential ... not focused, ends up wasted and not used.

And in the end this is what happens to kids and most musicians out there. I'm not sure that it has as much to do with the training as it does the desire to see, find, do and create something, that otherwise is harder to do if you have to play something you don't really want to play ... because your fingers want to go left and you're supposed to go right. To me, this is what is wrong with "rock'n'roll" that limits itself to a style and phrasing and limits the ability for people to expand their inner learning with an instrument.

From my writing ... you have to create space for experiments and weird bagatelles, so you know better what is behind the fingers ... and you have to literally schedule an hour or two per week for you to doodle ... and I mean DOODLE and just have fun with everything kid style. Bring a little kid and let him/her fiddle with the knobs as you play! ... anything ... so you can give yourself a treat or two, not to mention endup with a kid laughing and having fun with you, and probably get interested in music a bit later!

Sadly, we're afraid to have fun and test and try things. And this is where I think boredom and sadness sets in and one's ability to "create" gets limited and ... writer's cramp sets in.

You have to become a kid sometimes, so to speak ... with your work, and you shold do enogh of it to help it define your work better. In the end, it's not about the notes or the chords or how much music you know ... it's about how you translate what you feel inside into music ... notes can be played all day long, but having the feel for your emotion is another story!

Again ... potential is crap! And learning to walk and then pedal and drive ... is what it is all about! It's not just training ... you can still pedal after you been away from the bicycle 30 years later!