Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler

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Bones1300
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2008/08/07 16:30:42 (permalink)

Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler

I'm not one to post all that often and have been sick for a year, keeping me away from the computer and assisting in my forgeting some of the easier aspects of Sonar. I would sure appeciate some advise in this direction.

I want to build a drum machine from samples I own. First I will give you some background on my equipment. About eight years ago, I purchased "Ross Garfield - The Drum Doctor's Drums 2" from big fish audio. The samples are very good. There are many hits per drum, about 4 at each different velocity of which there are about 6. The only problem I see with them is they are all normalized. I purchased the audio version which is recorded 12/44. (I think that's right).Well, I want to make som drum kits out of them.

I own Sonar 6 Producer and have had many of the earlier versions. So, I do have some soft samplers in the machine such as the one from germany that was bundled with Sonar 3 and of course "Session Drummer". I also own Smart Loops Dry Tight Kit which I think is great but I still would like to build my own for more flexibility. Other than chopping up the samples, which I might add are dry, where do I begin? Or better yet, what would you do.
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    Fog
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/07 18:47:25 (permalink)
    well u can do velocity mapping with certain things also. including session drummer 2 etc

    I just map kits in a standard way.. having the kick at key 36 etc. so when I change kits the snare etc are all in the same place.. I pretty much follow the midi mapping for some things like kicks / snare / toms / hats


    I use recycle also, so if it's groups of samples that makes things a bit easier. e.g. having 30 hats on one audio track..

    the thing also is a lot of drums are mono , and just stereo'd for the purpose of putting them on cd.

    the sample rate is 16 bit / 44.1 for cd.
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    Bones1300
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/14 15:53:58 (permalink)
    Thanks Fog, sorry I didn't get back sooner. While you are on the right track or should I say you seem to understand what I am looking for. I purchased Frank's Smart Loops "Dry Studio Kit" in soundfont format sometime ago because Session Drummer had not come out yet. But I did notice another format was was something like SFZ? which I believe is the format for Session Drummer. I would like to use this format and create some more snares and other drums but I don't know how, beyond cutting up the samples and renaming them, to move forward. This is where I need my help.

    I also wonder if I would have had more response posting in another column.
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    b rock
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/14 16:41:16 (permalink)
    the format for Session Drummer. I would like to use this format and create some more snares and other drums but I don't know how, beyond cutting up the samples and renaming them, to move forward. This is where I need my help.
    The question now takes on more focus. Here's Step 1: The sfz Format: Basics. Step 2: Cakewalk Synthesizers: From Presets to Power User

    The first link is a 'freebie', and it'll give you a good grounding in how the .sfz format started out. The second (the book) is worth the price of admission for the advanced .sfz reference alone. It makes things very easy to find most all of the commands in one spot, and quickly determine how to incorporate another 'feature' into your scripts.

    I don't know if you have Cakewalk synths other than Session Drummer, but this tip applies to all of them. In SD2, click on the 'Pads'
    slot to take you to the 'Kits' folder. Search around there for any files with the .sfz extension. Instead of loading the Kit, right-click, and Open the file(s) in a text editor [NotePad]. These are simple kits, but they'll give you a good idea of what's needed to begin your own drum mappings. In fact, just copy the files over, then edit them to substitute the names of your own drum .wavs. It's a very quick method to get yourself up & running.

    Also, there are some other resources for the .sfz format. Rene's DimensionalTips will apply to a certain extent.
    So will Sfz and Grand Piano. Even though it dissects a DimPro piano patch, there are concepts that cross over to other synths.

    Lastly, search around these forums, especially Instruments, and Sonar or Project5, to a lesser extent. There are loads of files around here that add or enhance very specific features; usually with an explanation. Since .sfz is a text format, all you have to do is copy the pertinent text from the forum post, paste it into a text editor, then save it to a "Kits" or "multisamples" folder as an .sfz file. Ready to use.

    Here's one example: round robin/auto alternate on Dim Pro or SD2?
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    Fog
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/14 20:00:18 (permalink)
    Robert there is a converter for sf2 (sound font ) to sfz also , but I've just looked at the site that holds it and the download link doesn't seem to work

    http://audio.clockbeat.com/sfZed.html

    i tried it ages ago , it worked but you had to do it for all the patches

    with soundfonts , there normally isn't a multi velocity per sample (if I remember correctly) it's one key assigned per sound(s)..

    there is another few things about that maybe do sound font conversion, so you end up with the raw wav files.. with the sfz format, it's a text file.. if you look on that clock beat site it has a few links on how to make up sfz, including one that comes back to here.

    you can also use sound fonts , with sound font player .. which Rene has made one also (the guy behind z3ta etc)

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    Bones1300
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/16 12:57:19 (permalink)
    B rock and Fog, thanks!! Yeah, I probably didn't ask the question very well to begin with. I sure appreciate the answers and I'm going to dig into this over the weekend.I'm sure I'll have more questions. BTW, I don't have cakewalk instruments on my machine unless they were packaged with Sonar Producer. I didn't see session drummer mentioned in the description of the book title you gave me.
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    Fog
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/16 13:07:32 (permalink)
    Robert , the thing with sound fonts is they are a really old standard, I remember using them back in say 1995 or so using an AWE 32 sound blaster, where you could hold an amazing 28 mb of fonts.. how times have changed

    but the standard for them , was 1 note per sound.. or you could layer them, although they were velocity sensitive, it was only for that 1 group of sounds.. not say..... quiet / medium / loud kick, dependant on the velocity of the note you it.

    thats where sfz changed things. mapping to gm midi is what I use a lot , 2 kicks @ 35+36.. snare at hhmm 38 .. etc


    http://www.midistudio.com/Help/GMSpecs_PercMap.htm

    is how they are normally mapped, well the old standard

    tricky when you have loads of the same sounds, but sfz makes it easier in that respect.
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    b rock
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    RE: Building a drum sound set for a soft sampler 2008/08/16 15:24:15 (permalink)
    I didn't see session drummer mentioned in the description of the book title you gave me.
    There are about a dozen pages on Session Drummers 2 in the original printing. Perhaps there's more in the .pdf update available at the same address linked above. It's a little more step-by-step instruction than you're going to get from the online help manual. [Most Cakewalk synths: Click on the synth name / logo in the interface, bringing up the credits / 'splash' screen. Press F1 for the manual.]

    However, there are more than three times that many pages, packed with info, detailing the latest (print) version of the .sfz format in reference form. Other chapters deal directly with the .sfz format by explanation and example. If you're an 'up by your bootstraps' kind of guy, this is invaluable, and may be all that you'll need to start constructing your own sets efficiently.

    BTW, I don't have cakewalk instruments on my machine unless they were packaged with Sonar Producer.
    Let's see ... you have SD2, so that's at least Sonar 6 PE. You have DropZone, Dimension LE, RXP, Session Drummer 2, & the sfz (player) at your disposal. Sonar7 adds Rapture LE. The version of Sonar coming out next month will have ... well, we have to see, now, won't we?

    Each of these synths use varying degrees of the .sfz format as part of the underlying structure. That is, all of them will support the majority of .sfz commands. Newer versions have a handful of commands that may be over & above what the others utilize. What you learn about .sfz in one synth will apply to another. It's a very versatile format, effectively allowing you to change synth features or create your own type of synth from scratch.
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