Buss confusion

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jackn2mpu
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2008/09/08 16:36:09 (permalink)

Buss confusion

I have a question/problem:
Explanation:
Lately I've gotten into using busses mainly to conserve processing power when using effects on a few of my more dense projects. Have read the manual, help files, and the aftermarket books and get the concept. What I have had a problem with is when I go to bounce down to tracks. I go to Edit, Select All, Bounce to Tracks, deselect Fast Bounce, and click okay. I don't have all tracks going to a buss, just some. The others I have going to my soundcard output (as I normally would).
Problem:
For some reason unknown to me, sometimes not all the tracks bounce down, just the ones sent to a buss. Do I need to have all tracks go to a buss, or is there some setting I'm missing? None of the books cover this scenario, at least that I can find. I'm running Sonar 5 Producer, which basically does all I need it to. To further muddy things, sometimes, if I shut down and come back another day to that same project, do some work on it and do another bounce, every track gets bounced no problem. I'm talking a mix of recorded audio along with soft synths.

Jack
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14 Replies Related Threads

    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 16:54:45 (permalink)

    What does SONAR have to do with guns? And why is my neighbor firing one at this very moment? Coincidence?

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    jackn2mpu
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 17:00:29 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    What does SONAR have to do with guns? And why is my neighbor firing one at this very moment? Coincidence?



    Maybe he's creating impulse responses. Or maybe you live next door to Uncle Ted Nugent.

    Jack
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 17:02:16 (permalink)
    I think that's who it is!

    One of these days I'm gonna snap...


    :-)
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    jinga8
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 17:26:23 (permalink)
    Now Mike, let's be careful. I'm sure we would agree if a discussion broke out...but do we really want a discussion to break out? I'm just sayin'...
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 17:31:38 (permalink)
    Thanks Jinga,

    I think I agree with you on this as well... I shouldn't have said anything.

    My apologies Jack.

    FWIW, It was a true circumstance... my neighbor (let's call him Uncle Ted) was unloading a clip at precisely the same moment I was reading the original post.

    best regards,
    mike


    edit to add:

    Hi Jack,
    I don't have answer for your circumstance, but what I do is always run everything (tracks and buses) thru a "master" bus... which seems to make export fairly predictable. Maybe you can give that a try.
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/09/08 17:42:40
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    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 17:51:38 (permalink)
    but what I do is always run everything (tracks and buses) thru a "master" bus... which seems to make export fairly predictable

    +101

    Also, there are bounce properties. What did you select?? You can choose tracks, bus's, entire mix and so on.

    With a question like this, you need to list your signal chain in order of how it flows and list your bounce properties also. without this, its just a guessing game.
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    bitflipper
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 20:01:49 (permalink)
    Do not route any tracks directly to your soundcard. Create a master bus that is the ultimate destination for everything, tracks and busses. Only the master bus is routed to the sound card. That way, you can be certain that as long as you export the master bus your final file will be exactly what you've been hearing.

    You may want to consider always using sub-busses. Once you get into that habit, you'll find many advantages to busses.

    Example: you have multiple drum tracks. Once you get them balanced nicely, sending them to a bus means you have one convenient fader to adjust all the drums together. Similarly, sending all your vocal tracks to one bus makes it easy to tweak the overall vocal levels.

    Example: run all your instruments to one bus, including any instrument sub-busses. That lets you raise or lower all instrumental tracks together, which makes it easy to balance vocals and instruments. You can put a volume envelope on this instrument bus that pulls all the instruments up 1 or 2 db between vocal phrases. And if you find that the overall mix is too hot, you can just pull down two faders - the vocal and instrument busses - and lower the whole mix.

    There is no downside to using busses. No loss of fidelity, and no significant overhead. And you can have as many busses as you like, one of the cool benefits of in-the-box mixing.

    Another advantage of using a master bus is that you can re-route it easily, say between your main monitors, alternate speakers and headphones.
    post edited by bitflipper - 2008/09/08 20:07:25


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 20:08:10 (permalink)
    "Another advantage of using a master bus is that you can re-route it easily, say between your main monitors, alternate speakers and headphones."

    That's a great point Dave and something I took for granted because I'm already doing it that way.

    best regards,
    mike

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    Danny Danzi
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 20:38:39 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bitflipper

    Do not route any tracks directly to your soundcard. Create a master bus that is the ultimate destination for everything, tracks and busses. Only the master bus is routed to the sound card. That way, you can be certain that as long as you export the master bus your final file will be exactly what you've been hearing.

    You may want to consider always using sub-busses. Once you get into that habit, you'll find many advantages to busses.

    Example: you have multiple drum tracks. Once you get them balanced nicely, sending them to a bus means you have one convenient fader to adjust all the drums together. Similarly, sending all your vocal tracks to one bus makes it easy to tweak the overall vocal levels.

    Example: run all your instruments to one bus, including any instrument sub-busses. That lets you raise or lower all instrumental tracks together, which makes it easy to balance vocals and instruments. You can put a volume envelope on this instrument bus that pulls all the instruments up 1 or 2 db between vocal phrases. And if you find that the overall mix is too hot, you can just pull down two faders - the vocal and instrument busses - and lower the whole mix.

    There is no downside to using busses. No loss of fidelity, and no significant overhead. And you can have as many busses as you like, one of the cool benefits of in-the-box mixing.

    Another advantage of using a master bus is that you can re-route it easily, say between your main monitors, alternate speakers and headphones.



    +100000! As always, spot on advice bit. I like to use busses for anything that has multiple tracks. For example, say we have an 18 piece drum kit. I send them all to a drum bus. 4 layered electric guitars...send them to a guitar bus. 20 back up vocal tracks, send them to a back-up track bus. From there, all busses are routed to a master bus. You can then process the instrument busses you have created with a little compression other than comping each instrument....though certain instruments depend on independent compression to be inserted on the actual track. I rarely bounce down a track because my pc is powerful enough to handle just about anything, but if I were to do it, I would most likely do it instrument at a time to make sure I don't mess anything up....or the entire lot of that particular instrument that may be routed to a bus as an entity.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 20:45:39 (permalink)
    isn't that why buses were invented ;-)
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    ...wicked
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 21:34:03 (permalink)
    I'm in with the majority on this one. I don't know if it'll solve your problem, but it'll make troubleshooting easier and in the long run will prove to be absolutely invaluable not just from a workflow/organizational standpoint, but will actually allow you to do certain kinds of audio alchemy you could not do without them.

    If you "select all" when you bounce and aren't getting everything though, maybe try "entire mix" and see if that helps. I only use "tracks" when I'm creating some kind of odd submix or want to print effects.

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    Marah Mag
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 21:46:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bitflipper

    Do not route any tracks directly to your soundcard. Create a master bus that is the ultimate destination for everything, tracks and busses. Only the master bus is routed to the sound card. That way, you can be certain that as long as you export the master bus your final file will be exactly what you've been hearing.



    One excepton to this.

    If you use the Bounce to Tracks function to do a full mix, or if you import a previously exported mix into the project, you want to make sure that those mixes are not going through the master bus, especially if it has any processing on it. This will insure that you are hearing the actual mix, without any double processing. A similar situation would be if you do stem mixes within the same project: you want to make sure you're post-mix bussing avoids double processing, e.g., putting a bass stem through the same bus that rendered it, although in this case you probably would want the stems to go to the master bus.

    Point is: Avoid accidentally double processing mixes and stems.

    The way I avoid this situation is by creating tracks especially for these mixes and sending that track either directly to the sound card, or to a separate mix or stem bus, which then goes to the sound card, and to which nothing else is routed. If these mixes accumulate, I put them into separate folders so that they can be easeily minimized or archived and hidden and kept out of the way.
    post edited by Marah Mag - 2008/09/08 22:03:45
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    Danny Danzi
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 21:47:22 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

    isn't that why buses were invented ;-)


    LOL Mike, I don't know man.....until I got Cakewalk, "busses" were those big things with the Dog on the side. I remember when I had my drivers permit. While driving with my dad, I came to this intersection that was tough to see, so I said "yo dad anything comin on your side?" He says "nuttin comin but a Dog". I laughed and started to go and then saw this huge Greyhound bus that almost took us out. LOL!!!!
    post edited by Danny Danzi - 2008/09/08 21:48:37

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    AT
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    RE: Buss confusion 2008/09/08 22:02:22 (permalink)
    Master buss (#1 is how I usually do it so I don't get lost) goes to the main audio output.

    Every sub buss (drums, vox, etc) goes into Master buss. That should solve any problems.

    MY only exception to this rule is when I do a mix at project rates and save it with project file itself on the last track (muted, of course). I route that directly to the audio output. That way I can unmute and solo to try out mastering effects on the bounced track for fun and excitement without changing the original mix at all. Why? Sometimes I play with Cake only software effects for mastering that might not work in SoundForge.

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