Helpful ReplyBye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10

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THambrecht
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2015/08/20 14:53:11 (permalink)

Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10

As I see on the Roland Compatibilty Site, Roland has buried the VS700 Console.
Roland don't wants to make Drivers for the VS700.
With a trick it is possible to install the Windows 8.1 driver on windows 10.
But with me that trick works only with "Mackie" protocol - and not with the "Cakewalk Generic Surface"
I cannot switch the faders between track and bus. And I cannot switch the faders +8.
So it makes no fun.
 
As I see, all companies have a very bad driver support. And I don't want to pay much money for a DAW Console with bad driver support.
I'd like to buy a good device. But which device works with Windows 10?
And lives at least 6 years with constantly updatet drivers?



We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

4 x RME Fireface 800, 2 x Roland Octa Capture and 4 x Roland Quad Capture, Focusrite .... Studer A80, RP99, EMT948 ...

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#1
thornton
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 15:43:10 (permalink)
I feel your pain this happen to me with a presounus product that I loved but discontinued after windows 7
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TheMaartian
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 16:19:39 (permalink)
THambrecht
... I'd like to buy a good device. But which device works with Windows 10?
And lives at least 6 years with constantly updatet drivers?

One bit of happiness that I'm expecting with Win10 is that it is (supposed to be) the last VERSION of Windows. Now, we'll just get regular updates and fixes similar to the new SONAR model. What's great about that is the inference that the underlying structure won't change much. I don't think we'll see the same regular need for driver updates due to Windows updates like we did with XT => Vista => Win7 => Win8 => Win8.1 => Win10. Manufacturers are (should be) still on the hook for prompt bug fixes.

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#3
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 17:25:29 (permalink)
THambrecht
As I see on the Roland Compatibilty Site, Roland has buried the VS700 Console.
Roland don't wants to make Drivers for the VS700.
 
As I see, all companies have a very bad driver support. And I don't want to pay much money for a DAW Console with bad driver support.
I'd like to buy a good device. But which device works with Windows 10?
And lives at least 6 years with constantly updatet drivers?




While I'm personally also disappointed that Roland dropped a good product (which BTW happened about 2 yrs ago really), that's unfortunately the way business is run these days. New drivers just inflict cost but don't generate revenue ...
 
If you now ask what device to buy for win 10, you just do what they want you to: drop a working system and buy something new, which - with a fairly high chance - will suffer from its own deficiencies, as that's unfortunately the way business is run these days ... look at the short & cheap development cycles, all the designed in ***, assembled in china ... no one can guarantee you that anything you buy will last a day longer than the manufacturers warranty is valid ...
 
Why not keep the system running under win 7 or win 8.1 - win 7 is still "alive", win 8 will even be maintained a bit longer ...
 
What's all the win10 update madness about??? It's just an OS. Where's the benefit for real music production? The implemented improvements to audio processing do not apply to ASIO (and who is using the other options???), updates you can't turn off, so unless you keep your DAW off the net, you never know if it will work the next day - very professional, isn't it????
 
Win 10 is certainly not the last OS (how could that be? was it somehow sent back in time by skynet???) ... even if they still call it "win 10 (build 312768)" 5 years down the road, there may be changes to the core that may require rewrites of drivers ...
 
Anyway, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I follow this update craze and the more I read, the more I believe that my DAWs will keep their current OS and drivers. Someday I will have to replace the current DAW (if one of the key components breaks) so I may start building a new system in parallel a little while down the road with whatever OS is then the current one and whatever audio interface is supposedly pro-quality, but to be honest: this is a dreadful thought (new system, new quirks) ...
 
I'm not with Barney Stinson when it comes to having a reliable DAW
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#4
John T
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 19:16:58 (permalink)
You're quite right that there's no urgent reason to upgrade. However, in the longer term, or even in the medium term, it's inevitable. Try running a studio on Windows 95 or Max System 7 now. It's just not practical. It's not even all that practical on Win XP or OSX Jaguar.

I think the artificial obsolescence of perfectly functional and, to get down to the nitty gritty, expensive gear is a shady business.

I've got Line 6 gear that is twice as old as the v700, and Line 6 keep all their gear updated. I've got a long-discontinued Variax model that was getting firmware updates years after they stopped making it. Whatever you might think of the gear they make (I'm a fan of some of it, but not all), they do right by their customers, and they get a lot of repeat business off the back of that.

Roland might be big enough and well-established enough to not need to retain customer loyalty in that way. And if so, well, they'll survive, and whatever. 

But they'll still be - at the corporate decision making level - absolute jerks for it. You don't need to explain it to me - I already understand it. I just think it's crappy behaviour.

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#5
THambrecht
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 19:48:28 (permalink)
The reason why we updatet to Windows 10 is that we digitaze thousends of tapes and vinyl for customers.
Processing Audio is with Windows 10 much faster than with Windows 8 or Windows 7. Time is money.
We think Cakewalk Sonar is the best Audio Editor for this large volumes of data. We have Projects with 50 GB and more. And this works very well with Sonar. We are very satisfied with Sonar.
I think it is the break with Roland, that they don't want to make drivers for the old produkts from Cakewalk.
 
Let's see if the Behringer X-Touch gets ready to sale in the next time.
 
 
 

We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
4 x Intel Quad-CPU, 4GHz Sonar Platinum (Windows 10 - 64Bit) and 14 computers for recording tapes, vinyl ...

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#6
Amicus717
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 22:34:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/08/21 07:28:26
I think it's also an issue of expense. If I'd bought an M-audio interface for $120, and four years later it went obsolete with no more driver support, I'd be mildly annoyed but I'd also shrug and say "well whatever, life goes on", and pony up another $120 for a product from another company. It's $120. I've spend more on a good bottle of scotch, and it didn't last half as long.
 
The VStudio 700, however, was a higher level product aimed at serious hobbyists and independant pros, and came with a price tag to match. It was an investment for most of us, and I think it is fair to expect that it would be treated accordingly by the manufacturer. Roland asked us to invest a fair amount of money in their product, and I think there is nothing wrong with us expecting them to invest a bit of time and resources keeping that product current for a reasonable amount of time. And I don't think 5 or 6 years is a reasonable amount of time, considering the price tag.
 
Right now, I'm running fine in Windows 10, and hopefully it will keep doing so. But I don't like being outside the support loop, so to speak. An upgrade or patch for Sonar or Windows could cause problems with the drivers, at some point, and who do VS 700 owners turn to if that happens? I realize that may be unlikely, but I didn't invest in this system with the expectation I'd be playing the odds when it came to technical support. I paid the money, in part, because I expected to be supported in its use by the company that built it. I didn't pay thousands of dollars so that problems would be possible but "unlikely".
 
As for sticking it out with Windows 7 -- well, yes I could. I'd be rolling back to Windows 7 right now if I had no other option, and I'd be able to keep working. But I've noticed a nice little increase in Sonar's performance using Windows 10. Why should I have to deny myself that improvement simply because Roland has orphaned their own product? I want to enjoy Windows 10's improvements and features as much as anyone else, not get stuck in an OS two generations out of date.
 
Roland's decision is cold-blooded but I do understand it. They no longer want to devote resources to a product they have discontinued, with a smallish user based (I'm guessing), and with ties to a company they are no longer affiliated with. Its pragmatic, and they have the right to do whatever they want with their company. But its also bad customer relations, and I think its an act of bad faith - I put my faith in their product and their support, and gave them a fair hunk of money for the priveledge, and they cut me loose before I think they should have.
 
That probably can't be fixed, and I'd be surpised if any sort of pressue from VS 700 owners would make a difference. I'll keep soldiering on with the VS 700, because it is a great piece of hardware, and it the best sounding and most enjoyabvle system I've ever owned. But I defintely know that Roland will never get another penny of my money again.

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#7
TerraSin
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 23:10:41 (permalink)
Is it a for sure thing now? They did just update the 100 so it would make sense to get the 700 out as well.
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jayson
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/20 23:13:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/08/21 07:28:42
On Roland Canada's Tribe forum I asked if the No meant never or not now and got the following official reply:
 
If a product on the Roland Windows10 driver list is listed as NO then it will not be receiving a Windows 10 driver.
 
Thing that is annoying is that the driver does seem to work so not sure why they can't just release it as a beta.  Guess time to try the hack but a big thumbs down to Roland and it will influence any future purchases of their products.
 
Cheers,
 
jayson
 
 
post edited by jayson - 2015/08/20 23:21:06
#9
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/21 05:36:10 (permalink)
John T
I've got Line 6 gear that is twice as old as the v700, and Line 6 keep all their gear updated. I've got a long-discontinued Variax model that was getting firmware updates years after they stopped making it. Whatever you might think of the gear they make (I'm a fan of some of it, but not all), they do right by their customers, and they get a lot of repeat business off the back of that.

 
You're right. I just checked and even the POD X3 that I own, which they stopped selling about 3 yrs ago, has listed  win 10 drivers. The drivers appear to be older ones, so  I assume Line6 checked whether they install & work and go with that ... Roland could have well done something similar, like implement the "hack" that you guys published (thanks for all that effort BTW), check that it installs and check that it works and if something doesn't at least provide a list of known issues ... simply saying "We are sorry but we have no plan to make it compatible" is mildly spoken ridiculous ...
 
John T
Roland might be big enough and well-established enough to not need to retain customer loyalty in that way. And if so, well, they'll survive, and whatever. 

But they'll still be - at the corporate decision making level - absolute jerks for it. You don't need to explain it to me - I already understand it. I just think it's crappy behaviour.



A few years ago I thought Roland makes great products (and I do own a few of the more expensive ones). However, considering their rubbish support and their short product cycles, I will spend my money elsewhere. Just a side note: There is no win10 driver e.g. for the INTEGRA-7 which is still being sold (noticed that I wrote "sold" instead of "supported") and people in other forums complain that Roland synths (Jupiters, Junos, ...) are also lacking win10 drivers ...
 
John T
You're quite right that there's no urgent reason to upgrade. However, in the longer term, or even in the medium term, it's inevitable. Try running a studio on Windows 95 or Max System 7 now. It's just not practical. It's not even all that practical on Win XP or OSX Jaguar.
 
I think the artificial obsolescence of perfectly functional and, to get down to the nitty gritty, expensive gear is a shady business.

 
Shady business is a good way to phrase it ... there's just too much of it these days ... like the cell phone / app business with their unstoppable updates (now my GPS no longer works, but ironically it displays advertising in the GPS screen, like I would care ...)
 
I understand that mid/long term there will be no other choice but upgrade to win10 (buy a new PC and you are forced to use win10), but still I think unless my DAWs have a mechanical failure I stick to win 7 for a bit longer, then replace the audio interface first - that won't be cheap as I need 20+ channels @ 96 kHz, which I currently maxing out using the VS-700R+Octa-Capture+ADAT, but RME, Lynx, etc will have a stable solution ...
 
However, as regards the VS-700C: I have not seen anything that could be replacing it in terms of features and usability. I would really hate to see that go ...
post edited by FreeFlyBertl - 2015/08/21 05:46:06

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#10
THambrecht
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/21 05:51:41 (permalink)
It is not only just the driver support.
It means that future versions of Sonar will no longer work properly with the Console VS700.
Because there is no cooperation between Roland an Cakewalk.
Therefor it makes no sense to work with an old Windows 7.
Maybe in 2018 Sonar will no longer run under Windows 7 oder 8.
The device was buried.
 
 
 

We digitize tapes, vinyl, dat, md ... in broadcast and studio quality for publishers, public institutions and individuals.
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#11
Bassman002
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/21 08:12:55 (permalink)
Hi:)
 
@TerraSin
Is it a for sure thing now? They did just update the 100 so it would make sense to get the 700 out as well.

 
WOW, you just have to do a driver update and they are downloaded automatically!!
Well I think this will come for V-700 too!!!
 
Bassman
 
 
#12
tenfoot
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/21 12:14:54 (permalink)
That does suck - especially for a higher end device like the VS700., I had the same problem with two 01x's that Yamaha never wrote 64bit drivers for. The best company I have found for driver support for legacy hardware is RME.
 
 

Bruce.
 
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#13
konradh
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/22 15:24:29 (permalink)
If thji is true, I will not update to Windows 10.
 

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#14
keneds
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2015/08/23 10:46:50 (permalink)
Agree.........not until I have no other options, my unit is kept in pristine condition works excellent and looks very much new. I would hate to move it to the unused equipment pile.

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#15
Mark Jeangerard
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/07/31 23:20:23 (permalink)
This is upsetting. I came here because I am looking for a control surface for W10/Platinum and after looking at absolutely everything with a reasonable (acoustically negligible) footprint the VS-700c simply stands head and shoulders above all the rest. Scribble strip, surround panner, and more than 8 knobs being major concerns for me. 
 
Ah well... maybe Behringer has a BCR2000ish X-Somethingorother with scribble strips in the works. 
#16
robert_e_bone
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/01 09:56:53 (permalink)
I wonder if they would release source code for the last drivers that work for the VS-700, and maybe some independent programmer type could take on the task of creating drivers from that, for Windows 10.
 
If they have dropped all support for it, perhaps 2 years ago now, maybe they wouldn't care about someone having access to their code.  They would lose no revenue doing that, and perhaps would garner some good will from the user community that still very much wants to continue to use their devices.
 
Just a grasp at a straw - but maybe it is worth a shot to ask?
 
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#17
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/03 11:39:12 (permalink)
Mark Jeangerard
This is upsetting. I came here because I am looking for a control surface for W10/Platinum and after looking at absolutely everything with a reasonable (acoustically negligible) footprint the VS-700c simply stands head and shoulders above all the rest. Scribble strip, surround panner, and more than 8 knobs being major concerns for me. 
 
Ah well... maybe Behringer has a BCR2000ish X-Somethingorother with scribble strips in the works. 




Mark,
 
This is an old thread i.e. from the time before the guys here in the forum came up with a way to install the windows 8 drivers on win10. Check out how to do this over in the other thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/How-to-use-V700-win-8-driver-in-win-10-also-applies-to-some-other-Roland-drivers-m3206046.aspx
 
Same procedure applies to VS-700C drivers as VS-700 drivers. I have meanwhile migrated to win10 and installed both (VS-700 and VS-700C).
 
The VS-700C works identical under win10 as under win7/8.
 
EDIT: Behringer has a new replacement for the BCR on the market and it comes with scribble strips, BUT in Sonar it runs as Mackie Control so you would have to live with all the known drawbacks (no ProChannel control, ...)

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#18
kday
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/03 12:29:09 (permalink)
For those who have the VS700 system or console, just live with the Windows 7 OS and pretend Windows 10 never ever happened? Don't get sucked into dumping the best controller you can have for Sonar just because Windows has a new OS. Just use Windows 7 until eternity and enjoy the benefits. I have a dedicated computer for music, so why do I care if I can't update to windows 10 on a computer that really doesn't need it.
 
The only thing that could render my VS700 system obsolete is if Cakewalk stop supporting windows 7. And that's when I would stop using Sonar, because I would be dammed if anyone is gonna think I about to dump my 21st Century technology console I just bought over some Win 10 driver I don't even need.
 
I'll keep my Win 7 drivers in my VS700 system and be totally happy until hell freezes over. It's not the drivers that define my system, it's me who defines it.
#19
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/04 01:55:00 (permalink)
kday
For those who have the VS700 system or console, just live with the Windows 7 OS and pretend Windows 10 never ever happened? Don't get sucked into dumping the best controller you can have for Sonar just because Windows has a new OS. Just use Windows 7 until eternity and enjoy the benefits. I have a dedicated computer for music, so why do I care if I can't update to windows 10 on a computer that really doesn't need it.
 
The only thing that could render my VS700 system obsolete is if Cakewalk stop supporting windows 7. And that's when I would stop using Sonar, because I would be dammed if anyone is gonna think I about to dump my 21st Century technology console I just bought over some Win 10 driver I don't even need.
 
I'll keep my Win 7 drivers in my VS700 system and be totally happy until hell freezes over. It's not the drivers that define my system, it's me who defines it.




Totally understand your point. Felt like it up to a month ago when I started researching audio interface alternatives with better stability, clocking and AD conversion. I had to discover that there's a whole new world ahead of us, which is already available in the Mac world and slowly trickles over to the windows side: thunderbolt, latency of 1ms or less, audio interface connection via LAN ports, ... I'd like to take advantage of some of these new technologies and that implies using the latest OS. 
 
Big thanks to the smart people in this forum who could make the VS-700C work on win10!!!

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#20
kday
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/04 09:56:04 (permalink)
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
kday
For those who have the VS700 system or console, just live with the Windows 7 OS and pretend Windows 10 never ever happened? Don't get sucked into dumping the best controller you can have for Sonar just because Windows has a new OS. Just use Windows 7 until eternity and enjoy the benefits. I have a dedicated computer for music, so why do I care if I can't update to windows 10 on a computer that really doesn't need it.
 
The only thing that could render my VS700 system obsolete is if Cakewalk stop supporting windows 7. And that's when I would stop using Sonar, because I would be dammed if anyone is gonna think I about to dump my 21st Century technology console I just bought over some Win 10 driver I don't even need.
 
I'll keep my Win 7 drivers in my VS700 system and be totally happy until hell freezes over. It's not the drivers that define my system, it's me who defines it.




Totally understand your point. Felt like it up to a month ago when I started researching audio interface alternatives with better stability, clocking and AD conversion. I had to discover that there's a whole new world ahead of us, which is already available in the Mac world and slowly trickles over to the windows side: thunderbolt, latency of 1ms or less, audio interface connection via LAN ports, ... I'd like to take advantage of some of these new technologies and that implies using the latest OS. 
 
Big thanks to the smart people in this forum who could make the VS-700C work on win10!!!


I understand your point and totally agree with whatever you feel is best for your situation. I thought about buying a new console and new audio interface converter, but I said to myself if I did I would be downgrading for a psychological speed gain that makes no difference in sound. If the VS700 system was slow, and evident of latency, then that would be the issue to upgrade. But the VS700 latency is not bad at all to seek out an upgrade. I know thunderbolt is faster, but USB is highly sufficient as I get no lags or delays to warrant shelling out extra cash for something I don't need. We all like newer technology, but if that comes at a cost to downgrading the best console for the price in the world. Then the desire to seek an unnecessary speed boost in data transmission is not important enough. I can someday possibly upgrade my audio interface if I make an extra $2500 to $3000 to spend for one. But the console will probably never go, unless I can afford to spend $20,000 or more for a better one.
#21
TerraSin
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/06 16:58:45 (permalink)
I got my V700 Console to work in 10. The rack on the other hand I'll be selling pretty quickly as I've already replaced it with a new interface.
 
The only issue I've really run into with the controller is that the master fader doesn't control the master in Platinum and the Return to zero/Jump to project end buttons don't do what they are suppose to do on transport.
#22
Fog
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/07 14:41:31 (permalink)
I *DO* think the "life cycle" they support should be forced to be extended for such expensive products.
 
If I think a company has a bad track record with drivers I won't buy their products. I get they have a limited lifetime, but that should also be reflected in the  price. I got fed up of filling landfill with perfectly good items that couldn't be upgraded
 
#23
Thedoccal
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Re: Bye Bye VS700 Console with Windows 10 2016/08/07 17:34:03 (permalink)
I would pay $10 for updated Win 10 drivers to all my old gear.  Companies could start crowd funding pages to pre-sell the work.  If they get enough $$, they make or farm out the driver work.  How does that sound?

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Sonar: Platinum Lifetime/Computer: i7-870, 16GB RAM, AMD R9 380 graphics, Windows 10 (Pro x64)/500gb SSD C:, Barracuda sample(3T) and projects(1T) drives/3 Display Monitors (2&3 split)/Audio Interface: Behringer UFX1604 USB/Firewire/USB Stick/MIDI: Roland A-800Pro, Keystation Pro 88, Roland UM-3G:/Hardware Synths: Korg M3, Yamaha MOX6, Roland TD-8
#24
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