CAUTION! - Bouncing Tracks

WHEW! Well, I'm fortunate I still had my trusty off-site backup! I found the original tracks and was able to re-construct the session. X2, you're not taking me down that way!

brconflict


Word to the wise: In X2a, when you bounce to clip, BE SURE you know EXACTLY WHERE Sonar is placing that bounce. I lost an entire session thinking I had backed up all audio clips and bounces, but apparently missed bounces for drums in a session possibly because they were placed in a different directory. That alone just cost me more $$ to re-track than X2 cost.

I humbly admit I don't understand at all what you mean? 
How on earth could SONAR save a bounced/combined clip to anywhere else than in the cwp-file  and the Project Audio Folder? If audio is being rendered, like applying FX, I assume a new audio clip gets created in the audio folder (?), but if you just bounce to clips to combine the clips, it might well be only the info about the combining gets saved in the cwp-file ( no new audio file added in the Project Audio Folder).  I understand that you back up the project, or the Project Audio Folder and the cwp-file, but I don't undestand at all what you mean by "backing up bounces"..


You are using "Per Project Audio Folders", aren't you?

If I remember right (probably don't) but when bouncing doesn't SONAR prompt for a folder?  Or this that just when you export audio.

I don't bounce at all, do everything in REAL TIME (I have a pretty killer system) so it has been awhile since I bounced audio.  Usually just keep my audio tracks as part of the project and let SONAR do the rest.

Jim

Kalle Rantaaho


Unless everything is new in X-line (in that case ignore):

When you bounce to tracks, you're prompted the target track, and you're never prompted any folder anywhere, but one of the tracks in the project.
When you bounce to clips  you select the clip to be rendered and/or clips to be combined, and as default the bounce target is the track that includes the clip. Clip bounce never "vanishes" into any folder outside the track view.
How can you lose audio files by bouncing to clip, as the OP describes, or bouncing to tracks?

What means "backing up bounces"? I still don't have any idea what the issue described here is.

I couldn't figure out what the OP did. Or what was being cautioned against. I do know that in the many years this forum has been around this is the first time I have seen this kind of post. That does not mean that the OP is wrong just it has never been posted about before that I can recall. 

Bad things can happen that is a given yet I have no idea what is being reported about. If it is a bounce problem it will be the first one I am aware of. 

A detailed list of every action taken by the OP may clear this up. 

Bounce to Clip will ALWAYS render the bounced information to the same track - you don't have a choice!

Bounce to Track is different and can sometimes catch the unwary.

But the initial post is confusing and does need clarifying. The thread title refers to Bounce to Track, but in his first sentence he talks about Bounce to Clip.

No sage advice can be given until we know exactly what he's trying to do.

brconflict




On the new install, I did specify all default locations to be my D drive, which is actually a fairly tedious process. 

I don't have X series, so it may be different now, but specifying the default audio path was always just a question of selecting the drive / path in the Global Options and that's where they will go unless you change it, unless you are using an external HD which is not switched on when Sonar starts in which case it will revert to Sonar's default location.
 
I also don't understand why you had to re-track - are you saying that your back-up not only "lost" the edited tracks, but also somehow removed the original un-edited tracks ?

Just to clarify something. When you say "Bounce" do you mean "Export"? When you bounce tracks you specify a track where you want the bounced audio to end up but not a physical location on your system - that's one of the main differences between bounce and export.

You do specify a location when you export but that shouldn't remove the original track, but then neither should bounce to track. The only thing that removes originals is "Bounce to clips".

I'm not trying to be pedantic just understand what happened.

FastBikerBoy



I'm not trying to be pedantic just understand what happened.

In a case like this you should be pedantic. When the terminology the OP uses is so inaccurate that the whole question totally loses its logicality, the only way to solve the problem is to find out what exactly the OP is talking about.


Even after reading the confused answers and guesses given by forum members he continues to talk about bouncing when quite likely it's export he's doing, and gives no details that would make things clearer.


And Brconflict, this comment is more than confusing to me:
"When I bounce a clip, from now on, I will certainly double-check the Audio source to ensure it makes it
in the correct folder."  

What on earth has the audio source to do with the target file of the export (assuming it's actually  export you're doing)??  Your workflow and goals remain quite unclear to me.

FastBikerBoy


Just to clarify something. When you say "Bounce" do you mean "Export"? When you bounce tracks you specify a track where you want the bounced audio to end up but not a physical location on your system - that's one of the main differences between bounce and export.

You do specify a location when you export but that shouldn't remove the original track, but then neither should bounce to track. The only thing that removes originals is "Bounce to clips".

I'm not trying to be pedantic just understand what happened.

Karl, yes, "bounce to clips". In the Audio folder, I could see "bounced" filenames with a number (nnn). I did have many other bounced tracks in the Audio folder, but for some reason, these several didn't make it in there. 

I have mixed feelings about Cactus Music's response in that I agree with much of what he says, but it's easy to assume I'm not doing something right. I try to keep my process as simple and structured/clean as possible. This one threw me for en entire loop. If all my bounced clips made it correctly into the Audio folder as expected, then I'm scratching my head as to why some bounced clips didn't. Maybe it would help to know that I bounced many clips from the one session/project in Sonar, but only some of them made it into the Audio folder. I thought maybe, perhaps the number in parenthesis had somehow changed or been corrupted, but the audio simply wasn't there. This was after two manual backups, one locally, and one off-site of the same folder at different times after the bounces.

Anyway, back to Karl, what you mentioned is the reason I pledge caution: Bounced clips doesn't ask "where", they just do it as designed. 

I won't say I didn't do something wrong--that's still quite possible, but what could that have been for something so simple? I just found this really odd, and I was nearly out some cash to have the band to come back in to re-track what I'd lost. 

All is well now, though. I'm just preaching a little caution when backing up Audio or bouncing to clips. 

brconflict


 and I was nearly out some cash to have the band to come back in to re-track what I'd lost. 

So your original statement that it "cost you more $$ to re-track than X2" is not correct then ? Not trying to pick a fight or anything, but it might serve you well in future not to start requests for help with misleading information.

brconflict

FastBikerBoy


Just to clarify something. When you say "Bounce" do you mean "Export"? When you bounce tracks you specify a track where you want the bounced audio to end up but not a physical location on your system - that's one of the main differences between bounce and export.

You do specify a location when you export but that shouldn't remove the original track, but then neither should bounce to track. The only thing that removes originals is "Bounce to clips".

I'm not trying to be pedantic just understand what happened.

Karl, yes, "bounce to clips". In the Audio folder, I could see "bounced" filenames with a number (nnn). I did have many other bounced tracks in the Audio folder, but for some reason, these several didn't make it in there. 

I have mixed feelings about Cactus Music's response in that I agree with much of what he says, but it's easy to assume I'm not doing something right. I try to keep my process as simple and structured/clean as possible. This one threw me for en entire loop. If all my bounced clips made it correctly into the Audio folder as expected, then I'm scratching my head as to why some bounced clips didn't. Maybe it would help to know that I bounced many clips from the one session/project in Sonar, but only some of them made it into the Audio folder. I thought maybe, perhaps the number in parenthesis had somehow changed or been corrupted, but the audio simply wasn't there. This was after two manual backups, one locally, and one off-site of the same folder at different times after the bounces.

Anyway, back to Karl, what you mentioned is the reason I pledge caution: Bounced clips doesn't ask "where", they just do it as designed. 

I won't say I didn't do something wrong--that's still quite possible, but what could that have been for something so simple? I just found this really odd, and I was nearly out some cash to have the band to come back in to re-track what I'd lost. 

All is well now, though. I'm just preaching a little caution when backing up Audio or bouncing to clips. 

I'm probably going to appear a bit stupid here but I'm still trying to get a handle on exactly what you mean. If you select a clip or clips and then "Bounce to clip" (either from the right click menu or the clips menu in the TV) - the clip is bounced in situ and replaces the original(s). I'm a little confused as to what audio folder you are referring to. Do you mean you are trying to  manage the clips outside of Sonar? i.e. in your project or global audio folder? Or are you referring to a track folder within Sonar?
 
If it's the former that's definitely not a good idea (as you've found out) the only reliable way of using clips outside of Sonar is to export them with the export function when you do get to choose where to put them. If it's the latter I'm not sure what's happened as even if the bounce failed the original clips should be retained.

All I know is I am confused, still. 

All I know is I am confused, still.

 
I believe the OP used Bounce To Clip, and then found that specific audio files representing the bounced versions were not in the project audio folder along with all of the other bounced clips/wave files.
 
This is fresh in my mind since I've been copying specific bounced clips (split portions of longer tracks) into S1 for work with Melodyne.   I then take those bounced versions from S1's project folder and copy them back into my SONAR project audio folder, and import them into their respective tracks to replace the original versions.   So I have been working directly with bounced clips over the last few weeks on a fairly regular basis.    However... every clip has been in its expected location.
 

I always "Use Per-project Audio Folders" as it makes keeping track of everything easier, including sharing projects and backing up.
 
When you do this the "Bounce to CLIPS" wavs are all saved in the project's audio folder.

jb101, yeah, that helps me think more clearly. Let's assume I don't use Per-project Audio Folders. In this case, if all my Projects/Session files are saved in the C:\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Projects folder (default folder, anyway), then, inside that folder is a folder called, "Audio" or "Audio Data" depending on the Sonar X version, I believe. In that Audio folder would be literally all of the clips from all the saved Projects in Sonar, including any Bounced clips from any of my projects/sessions.

My case is just that simple. In that Audio folder (C:\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Projects\Audio) were indeed many bounced clips, alongside all of the clips from all the projects/sessions I saved in the default Cakewalk Projects directory. Assuming I want to back up and restore all of my projects and audio, if I simply back up the folder, C:\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Projects, literally all of the projects and audio there should be backed up. 

Oddly, in my case, there were some bounced clips in two projects (all drum tracks in one Project and one backing vocal track in another project) must not have been saved in that Audio folder on my C drive, but elsewhere. I know I didn't specify a change in locations for those bounced clips, so I'm a little baffled that they would exist in another folder. I've not tried to export/import, or edit anything outside Sonar.