CD Burning Software

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Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/01 03:49:10 (permalink)
That's an interesting tip. I did import 16-bit WAV files and normalize them in CD-A. I burned a disc tonight and it sounds fine. I'll try it your way and see if it sounds better.
post edited by Slayer - 2008/02/01 04:06:24
#31
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/01 04:01:31 (permalink)
As far as I can tell it's not possible to dither in Sony CD-A. So I don't know how to go about doing that. My last step is burning from CD-A. It ain't gonna work if it's not 16-bit. But like I said in the previous post, my disc sounds fine. I don't hear any distortion or anything.
post edited by Slayer - 2008/02/01 04:17:38
#32
losguy
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/01 12:04:27 (permalink)
Your ear is the ultimate test. It would show up in quieter passages, like solo instruments, especially piano and solo voice.

Basically, the rule of thumb is to do normalization, fading etc. first, and dither to 16 bits last. That final wav would then be what gets burned.

Psalm 30:12
All pure waves converge at the Origin
#33
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/01 20:34:04 (permalink)
I think that my CD player hates me.

I had my laptop (Vista) at work last night. That's the machine that I’m using to record my music and burn discs with using Sonar HS 6 and CD Architect. The disc that I made last night sounded great on my laptop. I used a CD-RW. But it wouldn’t play on my home stereo. I have a Kenwood CD jukebox at home (probably about 15 years old). I can't get any disc that I burn from my laptop to play in that CD jukebox at home. It fully hates CD-RW's. So I switched to CD-R’s for the rest of my burning attempts. I tried burning from WAV and MP3 but they won't play.

I also have a desktop PC (XP Pro) that I used to use to burn discs. I have Musicmatch on there. I tried burning a disc from WAV on my desktop PC and that wouldn't work. I tried burning from MP3 from my desktop PC and that DID play on my player. So apparently my player is a little nervous about formatting and encoding. But ALL of the discs that I burned (CD-R’s and CD-RW’s) would play on the CD boom box stereo in my dining room as well as on my computers. Weird.

Since the only disc that would play on my CD jukebox player was the MP3 disc that I did from my desktop PC I tried burning from MP3 on the laptop. No good. THEN I tried installing CD Architect on my desktop PC and tried burning from MP3 using that. That disc wouldn't play on any player. The computer won't even read it. I don't know what's up with that. That seems like a whole other mess that I don't even wanna get into.

I don’t know if it’s just that the jukebox is really limited as far as what type of media it’ll play or if it’s Vista or a drive setting. I just don’t know. I tried burning at different speeds too. I went through about 10 CD-R’s today trying all different ways of burning discs. It’s crazy.

This stuff is hard to learn. But I'm gonna figure it out either by tips from dudes on boards like this or on my own. And I'm gonna post my success story when I do make it happen and explain how I made it all work for the benefit of the next dude that goes through this.
#34
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/02 03:56:16 (permalink)
I don't get the difference between burning MP3 files to an audio CD and burning WAV files to an audio CD. It shouldn't matter. I don't know why it did in my case. Anyway, part of my resolution was ordering a newer CD player which I just did tonight. One that is specifically designed to play CD's as well as CD-R's and CD-RW's. Hell, the one I ordered even plays MP3's. So that should solve any formatting or encoding issues as far as playback. I'm also gonna line my soundcard into my stereo for mixing so I won't even need to be burning text mixes to rewritable’s or whatever. I don't have expensive PC speakers and I really just want my recordings to sound good on my stereo so I can jam to my stuff really loud whenever I wanna rehearse.
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ToneCarver
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/02 12:15:56 (permalink)
Another choice for basic CD burning is burnatonce, http://www.burnatonce.net/. It does both audio and data, just burning ~ no processing or effects, but it is free. Tracklists can be written to and imported from .m3u files. Has worked very well for me for couple of years now on XP - have not tried it on Vista though.
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Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/04 01:18:27 (permalink)
I'm diggin' this CD Architect. I just discovered something else that's cool about it. You can rip a whole audio CD into one WAV file instead of having all the tracks separate. That's kinda cool.
#37
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/04 03:59:26 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: losguy
Basically, the rule of thumb is to do normalization, fading etc. first, and dither to 16 bits last. That final wav would then be what gets burned.

Turns out that you can dither in CD Architect. I'm still learning. So I'll definitely take your tip and try this out. And the dithering plug-in has more options in CD A compared to Sonar HS 6 so I think it's gonna be even cooler.
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Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/06 05:49:26 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: losguy
If the WAV that you're importing into CD Architect has been dithered down to 16 bits, then don't apply any processing (effects, fading, normalization, anything) or you will get weird distortion and noise.

Dude, question... say I have a project that I did in Sonar at 24/96. When I go to export that as an audio WAV I shouldn't dither it all, right? Like, I should leave it at 24 bit and select NONE in the dither drop-down. Then after I drop the track into a project inside CD Architect the last step I'll do is dither down to 16/44.1 with a triangular dither or whatever. Am I thinking through this right?
post edited by Slayer - 2008/02/06 05:50:36
#39
losguy
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/06 11:13:05 (permalink)
Yup, that's right. You can try different dither shapes and spectral profiles, too. On shape, triangular is better than rectangular IMO, but sometimes Gaussian sounds better! For spectral profile, the POWr-3 built into SONAR is pretty good in most cases (at least for me). I don't know what CDA offers in that department.

Psalm 30:12
All pure waves converge at the Origin
#40
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/10 23:36:33 (permalink)
Yeah CD Architect has gaussian or a couple different rectangular or triangular options. The only thing that the dithering option in CD-A doesn't have is to change the sampling rate. I hafta figure that out or understand it better. Like, if I would dither during the export from Cakewalk there is a drop down option to select a lower sampling rate. What happens if I export that project from Cakewalk with the original sampling rate (96kHz) and open it up with CD-A? I wonder if it automatically changes it to 44.1 before it burns to disc. I'm gonna hafta scope out an answer to this.
post edited by Slayer - 2008/02/11 01:49:57
#41
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/11 04:52:17 (permalink)
I've found these product descriptions for CD A 5.2 on a couple different sites:
General Editing

32-bit, 192kHz source audio support

Use the highest quality audio in your CD projects, up to 32-bit, 192kHz source audio – no conversion necessary.

Import audio formats other than 16 bit, 44.1kHz (CD quality), and CD Architectâ„¢ software will resample the media to your project's sample rate and perform dithering with advanced noiseshaping

So it sounds like it DOES just transparently convert your files before you burn. I sent a question into support to confirm this.
#42
losguy
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/11 10:00:48 (permalink)
Thanks for following up, Slayer. I don't have CDA, so it's nice to learn what the options are in that direction.

Right now, I do my finalizing right inside SONAR, then I use Nero for basic burning of dithered 16/44.1k WAVs.

Psalm 30:12
All pure waves converge at the Origin
#43
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/11 23:17:06 (permalink)
Word. I think I hear crickets chirping over here and it's the middle of the winter. I'm not getting a response from Sony support. I hear that's common. I'm not gonna hold my breath. I'm gonna just try to burn a project this week after I'm done working and see how it goes.
#44
Slayer
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RE: CD Burning Software 2008/02/12 20:37:42 (permalink)
Okay, Sony never replied so I rolled into the CD Architect forum and a dude in there verified that CD Architect just resamples any WAV file to 44.1 kHz automatically. And the dither plug-in on the master bus takes care of dithering to 16-bit. I finally got a project done today and tried burning to disc and it worked. It sounds really good. That's that.
#45
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