Grumbleweed_
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CMM Rapture Pro review.
Computer Music Magazine have got their hands on Rapture Pro for a review and the result was not pretty. I figured it would suffer a poor review if the amount of negative comments/problems I've read on forums was an indicator - and so it came to pass.
As a supporter of Cakewalk products I have to say it's a bit of a shame.
Grum.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/13 19:29:37
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I think this is one of those 'learn from your mistakes' moments. The good news is that Cakewalk will have no choice but to up their game here. The state Z3TA+2 was left in, and what Rap Pro is now in (a far worse situation) needs to be fixed promptly. I remain positive these issues will all be addressed (although it's extremely frustrating they still remain silent about Z3TA+2, this is a poor show).
Now is Cakewalks chance to bring back some consumer confidence here like they did brilliantly with Sonar. This should be tackled from a clean slate perspective.
Is there a link for the review?
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Fog
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/13 23:02:08
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It's a bad indicator for me when even from trailers etc. I am thinking ...so ?
Mag turned up on my doormat today also.
I think it was like beatscape again.. Great on paper.. And looks the part.. But that's all.
Just seemed a waste of dev and testing time. Reinventing the wheel
Only 2 companies now get the "take my money now" without question.. U-he and fabfilter. Neither are as big as cakewalk I doubt either.
Get people in who use synths a lot to be criticial if you do a new project.. 2 of my friends with real synth collections come to mind. One has easily 40
Cake has the staff with the skills, that's the annoying bit. Lennar ,only sell one thing for years.. And its a much loved synth.
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Orphaned at Birth
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 02:47:14
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looks about right . . . credit where credit is due I always say . . .
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TomHelvey
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 03:19:18
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Fog
Lennar, only sell one thing for years.. And its a much loved synth.
I know it's unquantifiable but Sylenth just sounds friendly. Whoever wrote the DSP code was brilliant. There are rumors of an update but it's still synth 1.
System: i7-6900, 64Gb, AMI X99 Carbon Pro Gaming, AMD Radeon HD 7700, Win 10 Pro PCIe: UAD Octo USB: MOTU midi express 128, OB-6 Module, Akai MPK-249, Moog SUB 37, Antelope Orion 32 HD, Softube Console 1, iLok, eLicenser DAW: Cubase Pro, Ableton Live, Sonar Platinum Plugins: Waves, UAD, Xfer, Lennar Digital, u-he, Reveal Sound, Spectrasonics, SoundToys, VPS, Blue Cat, iZotope, NI, Valhalla, Lexicon, etc. https://soundcloud.com/thomas-helvey
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 07:18:16
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Doktor Avalanche
Is there a link for the review?
I'm sure MusicRadar will post something soon (it won't before CMM is in the shops though). Grum.
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mudgel
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 11:32:56
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I wasn't going to buy Rap Pro but I'd been doing some clearing out of old stuff on eBay and decided I'd get it after all. Wish I hadn't. At least not till it was sorted out. You'd think a person would learn.
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JayCee99
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 11:59:01
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I considered it but could not justify the $99. It just seems like the same synths with an updated prettier interface.
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bjornpdx
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/14 21:29:58
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Are you referring to the July 2015 issue of CMM? I've looked everywhere but I can't seem to find the review of Rap Pro, only an announcement in the CM/News section on p 24 (Android version of CMM) ??
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 06:34:54
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bjornpdx
Are you referring to the July 2015 issue of CMM? I've looked everywhere but I can't seem to find the review of Rap Pro, only an announcement in the CM/News section on p 24 (Android version of CMM) ??
Yeah all I see mentioned about Rappro is on page 24, No review . Are you sure you read a review in CMM ? Love to read the review. Thanks John
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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dcumpian
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 08:35:15
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Of all the VSTi's I've ever used, the only ones that I have ever had problems with were either freeware or came with Sonar. As much as I love Sonar, it would take a lot for me to start buying Cakewalk instruments.
There are so many high quality VSTi's out there, I can't imagine why a company would try to break in to that market without making absolutely sure that the synth was like nothing else out there and was rock-solid to boot.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 10:22:24
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Yup they feel like freeware vst's. The exception though is Z3TA+2 but they didn't take enough pride in fixing some serious bugs (are you listening Cakewalk?). Oh and the other is drum replacer. It's not like Cakewalk aren't capable here. What I find impossible to work out is that they are totally on the ball with platinum but with plugins miles away. It's like two different companies. Maybe Gibson should buy a good vst instrument firm (buy fabfilter! Please!) :)
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/15 10:30:35
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 10:33:09
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BTW I'll be looking for rapture pro fixes by the end of the month. I also want Cakewalk to give a statement about chucking in better sample mangement and a setting section for a later release(I was asking about this even before it came out). Also I hope they tell us a service pack for z3ta+2 is imminent.
Otherwise I guess I'll probably join the refund brigade, and totally give up on cakewalk synths, spent too much time on this. Sorry Cakewalk I love Platinum but brand loyalty only goes so far. I will wait and hope for a bit longer though.
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AT
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 13:21:12
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What? A bad review? Did Cakewalk not pay off the mag? Remember this the next time some ignorant ahole makes that argument on this forum. Maybe it should be stickied.
Anyway, I've had problems w/ Rap Pro but nothing I'd call a show stopper. And there are plenty of libraries that cost good money that don't match up to the new stuff in Rap P. And there are tones of stuff I'd like to see, like having a proportional control on the X/Y pads, the ability to assign engines/corners to the vector paid, and a granular engine (but I can make that for most synths!). Rap P is basically a combo Dimpro and Rapture with more library and an emphasis on real time control that can use touchscreens. Not a break though synth but just how many Moogs are there?
And while acknowledging there is still plenty of work to do (why, oh why can't a synth find its samples? - that seems as basic as it gets) Cake is working on fixes. In fact, I don't think I've seen as many quick fixes put out so quickly - even if that isn't strictly a good thing - it provides a shot of hope. I'd much rather have that then abandonware.
@
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http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 14:32:26
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For those who think I dreamt the review as they can't find the latest edition - if you subscribe you get it earlier than the general public. I'm sure it will be out there in the real world soon enough.
Grum.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 14:33:02
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Sadly with other DAW's away from Sonar there are showstoppers, and the samples should have just worked.... period. Also I purposely installed my Rapture Pro samples folder away from the older apps so I could do better housekeeping, but in the end I was left with three folders to manage samples with not one. I hoped RP would merge management of the samples together instead it fragmented it and made it worse. I don't know who argued about paying off the mag to get a review, but I can tell you it is commonplace for some mags to negotiate some sort of a deal just to get the review. Editorial would still remain independent afterwards although it would be hard to see how. Note I'm not saying this happens for every review or indeed for the review you are talking about. With the internet though paid for mags though seem increasing less relevant nowadays so maybe this is becoming less commonplace.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/15 14:41:25
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kitekrazy1
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 14:56:46
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The Grumbleweed
For those who think I dreamt the review as they can't find the latest edition - if you subscribe you get it earlier than the general public. I'm sure it will be out there in the real world soon enough.
Grum.
The latest is July 2015. You have not cited the exact issue which is labeled by month or issue#.
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mumpcake
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/15 22:41:35
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In CM 218 (Virtual Vintage) the cover of the next issue indicates a review of Rapture Pro . That would mean it would be in CM 219 (Ultimate Sidechaining).
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AT
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 00:15:30
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Doktor, no argument with me about the samples and I can see being thrown by other problems. I don't really use Rapt Pro because of that. Where I differ is I think Cake will get things sorted out, and I think it will be worth it. I love performance pads. In the meanwhile I like some of the presets, it has a great selection of samples that actually work, and it offers a lot of control. Not perfect, for sure, but usable.
As to payola in the music mag business, every time there is a positive review someone somewheres brings out the old canard that companies pay for good reviews. If you work in the publishing business, esp. reviews, there is nothing quite as important as credibility. If I say this product is the best thing since baked beans and a mag publishes it (and it doesn't matter what the product is - music software or cars or hotels) and enough customers buy the product and it kills their firstborn, they ain't going to take my word next time and never buy the magazine again (or that is how I'd react). Magazines get about half their money from ads while the rest comes from you, the reader (and buyer). If I was a publisher I'd spike a review of a product that wasn't up to snuff, not lie. You put half your revenue stream at risk. I'm not saying it ain't done, just that it doesn't make economic sense since when you can just not run the damn thing. And as a writer, I've never been asked to do it by an editor. I just wanted anyone that thinks that way to remember this review - and there have been others.
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https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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SimpleManZ
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 00:57:05
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How can the OP state something and cannot divulge a little of the information. We know of CM Magazine as giving:
1. A trophy value
2. A description (sometimes subjective)
3. A rating from 1 to 10
4. A closing 'pros and cons'
I normally accept most of all CM Magazine input, so as a rating of 7 and below, is considered a lousy product.
They gave Sonar Platinum a Silver Award and a 9/10 rating.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 03:03:43
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AT
If you work in the publishing business, esp. reviews, there is nothing quite as important as credibility.
Exactly hence my point of editorial control still being maintained to an extent.
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Vastman
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 03:37:10
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There are so many independent amazing vst's out there... why try and compete? Focus of the DAW... Recording, Mixing, Mastering...and all other aspects... seems to me every hour or dollar spent on synths is a take away from the DAW's refinement.
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 04:20:06
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Why not? Cakewalk are capable look at drum replacer and z3ta+2. Plugin content is required for Sonar as well.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Vastman
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 05:15:07
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Small team... endless supply of awesome stuff already out there... many issues still needing attention as per our suggestions forum...
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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Fog
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/16 23:08:17
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AT , I know of the editor of the mag due to a link to something else he used to do (game music) and another member of staff who used to work for them.. neither of them are or were getting incentives outside of their publisher .. if the mag gave good reviews to not to good products, then folk wouldn't by the mag. Yes I have heard of game mags, where the reviews reflects advertising pages.. but there is only "so much" greasing of palms can achieve, people would see right thru reviews that were a crock.
look at it this way, you own DP (well I own 3-4 due to the silly licensing scheme, cakewalk would gain customers if they allowed license transfer of doubles.. look how many bought rapture due to CM!!) and same again for rapture, multiples.. what actually has been done to both DEEP down in the code ? remember both have shared components long before they were merged also... so is it something really REALLY new? it comes across as cosmetic... is it something that co-existed in the past.
if your saying that the version they got deserved a higher rating , then perhaps
1) it wasn't exactly bug free
2) it wasn't something NEW and innovative (see the likes of u-he consistently gets high marks, wonder why ? )
I could tell it wasn't gonna be an 8 or 9 from the trailer.. I've used stuff like Kore for example years before.
cakes synths are over engineered and too thought out.. only those who have the time will want to bother to code sfz scripts etc. the browser thing in DP and rapture has been none standard and a nightmare to use with other 3rd parties where it won't even grab the patch list / do the changes
how many people actually bother to sit down and do patches for rapture for example? it's not exactly as inviting / straight forward as other things.
if you're stating it didn't get a higher mark due to advertising.. then nah, the score reflected "nothing REALLY new".. and yer I own a lot of virtual synths , to be objective enough.
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Magic Russ
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/17 00:09:17
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Fog
how many people actually bother to sit down and do patches for rapture for example? it's not exactly as inviting / straight forward as other things.
I do. I have done a lot of cool things with factory waveforms. Trance gates, mock Chamberlins, ambient scapes, ELP leads ... I even have one patch which mimics the bass line and reverse cymbals from Pink Floyd's "One of these Days". It seems that every time I sit down with Rapture I come up with something interesting. I haven't had as much of a chance with Pro yet. I am more likely to get good results from scratch with Rapture a lot better than I get on with Massive, FM8, Rhino or Alchemy.
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Magic Russ
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/17 00:23:54
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As for CM's review scale, think of it more like grades from school. 9 is an A, 8 a B, 7 a C, etc.
Then also consider that they are going to focus their reviews on the type of plugins that readers might be interested in buying. Most of these are going to be B's or C's, with a few A's and A+'s and a few D's.
They are not going to be reviewing a plugin made by a guy called 1337d00d using an unstable crack of SynthEdit that crashes every host but the one he tested it on within 60 seconds of loading it into a project.
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ShellstaX
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/17 09:16:42
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It's in the the August 2015 (CM219) Sidechain issue - electronic copy arrived through Zinio today.
It appears CM wanted to see more clear enhancements pull it into line with the current bigboys. They've likely given Cakewalk a 'headsup' and were good enough to suggest that some of the 'missed opportunities' could be addressed through updates (as implied/told by Cakewalk).
But does that mean that Beta testing is a thing of the past (to iron out the kinks/UX for initial release)(?) I suspect that management speak like 'agile' and 'ship early, ship often' had a part to play in the current situation. My 'operational capital' is upfront (albeit at the cakewalk owner intro price) ... so look forward to the updates. Definitely not giving up on it.
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AT
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/17 10:57:13
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Fog, I wrote an answer but the forum software didn't post - maybe the missing content problem is spreading!
But it went something like this: I haven't read the review and don't know the score. I would give it a middling score myself, tho I think RaptPro will be a great synth once the kinks get worked out. Maybe great isn't the right word, but one I'll use a lot.
And yea, if someone would have put out a visual SFZ editor the format would have done better. Not for every aspect of text control (and why couldn't someone write in wave/sequencing/tables in SFZ?) but the basic layout of samples and things of that nature. Oh, well, that horse seems to have left the barn and I was asking for that back in the P5 days.
Once Cake gets it working right it still won't be a ground breaking synth, but how many moogs are there? Still, it is a solid synth and one I'll use on every project, if not a couple of instances along w/ Alchemy and Kontakt. At this point it is a C (an old-school C that means barely passing) because of the reliability issues; a B for many once it works reliably and an A for my personal uses, which aren't typical but more experimental and inharmonic (my guitarist just shakes his head at times when I give him tracks to play against). With the various performance pads, I'll be able to play a patch into all kinds of weirdness.
For $99 it will be a good deal, since it will be going up in the future I imagine. But again, I've got a warped idea of value, since I'm investing much more in hardware these days for my home stuff.
good to see you around,
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: CMM Rapture Pro review.
2015/06/17 15:13:28
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Fog
AT , I know of the editor of the mag due to a link to something else he used to do (game music) and another member of staff who used to work for them.. neither of them are or were getting incentives outside of their publisher .. if the mag gave good reviews to not to good products, then folk wouldn't by the mag. Yes I have heard of game mags, where the reviews reflects advertising pages.. but there is only "so much" greasing of palms can achieve, people would see right thru reviews that were a crock.
look at it this way, you own DP (well I own 3-4 due to the silly licensing scheme, cakewalk would gain customers if they allowed license transfer of doubles.. look how many bought rapture due to CM!!) and same again for rapture, multiples.. what actually has been done to both DEEP down in the code ? remember both have shared components long before they were merged also... so is it something really REALLY new? it comes across as cosmetic... is it something that co-existed in the past.
if your saying that the version they got deserved a higher rating , then perhaps
1) it wasn't exactly bug free
2) it wasn't something NEW and innovative (see the likes of u-he consistently gets high marks, wonder why ? )
I could tell it wasn't gonna be an 8 or 9 from the trailer.. I've used stuff like Kore for example years before.
cakes synths are over engineered and too thought out.. only those who have the time will want to bother to code sfz scripts etc. the browser thing in DP and rapture has been none standard and a nightmare to use with other 3rd parties where it won't even grab the patch list / do the changes
how many people actually bother to sit down and do patches for rapture for example? it's not exactly as inviting / straight forward as other things.
if you're stating it didn't get a higher mark due to advertising.. then nah, the score reflected "nothing REALLY new".. and yer I own a lot of virtual synths , to be objective enough.
If you read the posts carefully nobody is implying or saying RP got bought reviews. Somebody may have done on another thread. I was giving an overview.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/17 15:23:41
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