CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please??

Author
kubalibre
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 614
  • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
  • Status: offline
2009/01/13 11:27:32 (permalink)

CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please??

I´ve heard there is a Cubase 5 ad released (too early, as usual) in today´s Recording magazin. "Experience Innovation" and a big "5"

Please, could anyone scan this and send me the jpeg or post it here?

This would be AWESOME!
post edited by kubalibre - 2009/01/13 11:38:55

---------------------------------------------
all crash on the louspeaker
#1

28 Replies Related Threads

    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 19:07:27 (permalink)
    That, dear sir, would be a violation of copyright and international law.

    Watch it folks... this guys just trying to bait you so he can call you a "pirate"

    I find it curious that one who is usually the one who protests to strongly would ask us to take part in international crime.


    LMAO.


    #2
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 19:10:28 (permalink)
    TOPIC CLOSED :-)


    #3
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 19:11:58 (permalink)
    funny. very funny!

    Remembering the Sonar 7 and 8 ads posted here as well? Since when is posting an advertisement a crime???

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

    That, dear sir, would be a violation of copyright and international law.

    Watch it folks... this guys just trying to bait you so he can call you a "pirate"

    I find it curious that one who is usually the one who protests to strongly would ask us to take part in international crime.


    LMAO.


    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #4
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 19:39:46 (permalink)
    I wasn't involved and there's no way I'm ratting out the guys that did that. :-)


    #5
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 19:44:10 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

    I wasn't involved and there's no way I'm ratting out the guys that did that. :-)



    Law and Government Paranoia can be cured these days! Take a vacation in Europe...!
    You can even sell and buy Sonar 8 2nd hand here.. there´s no better place like home.
    post edited by kubalibre - 2009/01/13 19:47:09

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #6
    Fog
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 12302
    • Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 20:01:53 (permalink)
    kubalibre, well truth is whoever makes the advert really owns the (C) on it..e.g. if it's a cakewalk product.. it's their copyright.. they just send over the postscript file etc.. or whatever and it's in the mag..

    posting it on the other forum, I'm guessing they might not be happy. as a cubase 4 owner... 5 should have waited.. none of this "preview" rubbish for a start, they should fix that up.. I waited long enough for side chaining also like a lot more. Depends on the price, the last time I heard from them was when they wanted to show me their new sound card / controllers, which I wasn't interested. If steinberg unlocked their plugs so I could use them in sonar, great. that aspect does annoy me. Although of course they will say "oh they are in vst 3 format".. .if I'm paying (indirectly) for the plugs and they are not 3rd party, I should be able to use them in any host I choose
    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 20:01:56 (permalink)

    "Take a vacation in Europe...!"

    Naw... too much paperwork.

    You ain't lived till you've visited all 50 of our states with nothing but a drivers license.


    #8
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 20:24:45 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Fog

    kubalibre, well truth is whoever makes the advert really owns the (C) on it..e.g. if it's a cakewalk product.. it's their copyright.. they just send over the postscript file etc.. or whatever and it's in the mag..



    come on.. posting a link to an ad won´t get you sued. However. I already got it mailed as PM.

    ORIGINAL: Fog
    posting it on the other forum, I'm guessing they might not be happy. as a cubase 4 owner... 5 should have waited.. none of this "preview" rubbish for a start, they should fix that up..



    Now that´s a good one! Steinberg at least had the guts and honesty to admit that 64 bit sequencing was not there yet two years ago, because there are many third party components missing and not enough 64 bit plugins on the market. Therefore, "Preview".
    Sonar 8 x64 is the same "preview rubbish", Bitbridge is not working properly, it´s not even developed by themself but some FX Max mangled up Teleport middleware. The difference is that CW stated they brought the big 64 bit revolution. I wasted a lot of time in using x64 Sonar and realizing that it cannot even called "Beta".

    ORIGINAL: Fog
    I waited long enough for side chaining also like a lot more. Depends on the price, the last time I heard from them was when they wanted to show me their new sound card / controllers, which I wasn't interested. If steinberg unlocked their plugs so I could use them in sonar, great. that aspect does annoy me. Although of course they will say "oh they are in vst 3 format".. .if I'm paying (indirectly) for the plugs and they are not 3rd party, I should be able to use them in any host I choose


    Prices of Sonar and Cubase are the same.
    And good luck using Cakewalk Plugins like the VC 64, Channel Tools etc, in other hosts, doesn´t work either

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #9
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 20:27:13 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    "Take a vacation in Europe...!"

    Naw... too much paperwork.

    You ain't lived till you've visited all 50 of our states with nothing but a drivers license.


    hm.. not that much paperwork!

    Well I haven´t seen 50 but every state lying between New York and L.A. - once driving through with some friends. That was a weird road movie with lots of Budweiser in the Trunk...

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #10
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/13 20:40:12 (permalink)
    Ya know, I've worked in a few minimum security prisons and several maximum security prisons.

    One thing all of the jailbirds have in common... they all rationalize their crimes.

    :-)

    best regards,
    mike


    PS glad to learn you've enjoyed an All American Roadtrip. I hope you came upon the front range in the day time...it's an awesome experience.

    post edited by mike_mccue - 2009/01/13 20:46:02


    #11
    Moseph
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 85
    • Joined: 2007/06/13 17:31:40
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 08:02:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
    That, dear sir, would be a violation of copyright and international law.


    Wait, really? That seems weird that it would be applied like that to something publicly distributed like advertising.
    #12
    Fog
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 12302
    • Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 08:34:17 (permalink)
    kubalibre, I purposely put things in that way.. to see if you'd bite... and ya did.. the memory of Steve Austin lives on huh?

    bitbridge and the sequencer HAVE NOTHING in the sense of the actual sequencer being 64 bit... remember bitbridge is for plugins... and cubase don't use something similar for 32 bit plugs? (does VST bridge ring any bells ? lol) think you might wanna rephrase that .. I notice you kept very quiet about the "native side chaining" thing...lol... 8 months or some BS... in the UK that comes under false advertising. Whose fault is it that people have to use 32 bit plugs anyway? the makers of them for not updating them.. heck I'd have gone 64 bit but rewire isn't supported yet

    it's bad form to post adverts on rivals forums.. would you do that with say sonar on... props / ableton / steinberg forum etc? I think not.. much as Justin (mr reaper) tried a little stunt a while back.

    if you bothered to look VC 64 , uses 3rd party code... the big clue is "powered by" not tried channel tools.. tried boost 11 / rapture / z3ta / dp.... how many Steinberg instruments can you use outside it... speaking of which , to quote from a certain mag.... "makes the amount of instruments in cubase look anemic"

    I use both things... so I think I can be objective... will I upgrade to 5... hhhm not sure yet... I wasn't overly impressed how 3 to 4 was dealt with.. they toook WAY too long up updates.


    Moseph, yep. although years ago a record company I used to help at sometimes for paid for adds on a none legit radio station. Also gave the dj's free records.. it was basically advertising.. much like promos etc.
    post edited by Fog - 2009/01/14 08:39:19
    #13
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 09:59:45 (permalink)
    Í think bitbridge (which is basically Teleport) and VST Bridge (which is actual Steinberg Technology) are different things. And Steinberg labeled this as "preview" technology. Cakewalk labeled Sonar 7 / 8 the "64 Bit revolution".
    The honesty lies for me clearly more in the Steinberg camp.

    Regarding advertising: This is an open Software Forum, pretty much like the Music Lounge on the SB forum.
    If I would like to "advertise" Cubase 5 (why should I, I don´t get paid for it) I would have posted "Check out Cubase 5 it´s gonna be great" on the Sonar 8 forum.

    BTW there is also some Sonar Talk going on on the Cubase Music Lounge forum from time to time.

    I can do this here, so check THIS out:
    It has been posted on the SB forum a couple of hours ago:

    http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2255/cubase51fv4.jpg

    I also use both programs, but I have to admit Sonar is temporarily de-installed until I see further development (->patches)

    I´m sure to check out the Update to C5, shouldn´t be too expensive.

    Best regards




    ORIGINAL: Fog

    kubalibre, I purposely put things in that way.. to see if you'd bite... and ya did.. the memory of Steve Austin lives on huh?

    bitbridge and the sequencer HAVE NOTHING in the sense of the actual sequencer being 64 bit... remember bitbridge is for plugins... and cubase don't use something similar for 32 bit plugs? (does VST bridge ring any bells ? lol) think you might wanna rephrase that .. I notice you kept very quiet about the "native side chaining" thing...lol... 8 months or some BS... in the UK that comes under false advertising. Whose fault is it that people have to use 32 bit plugs anyway? the makers of them for not updating them.. heck I'd have gone 64 bit but rewire isn't supported yet

    it's bad form to post adverts on rivals forums.. would you do that with say sonar on... props / ableton / steinberg forum etc? I think not.. much as Justin (mr reaper) tried a little stunt a while back.

    if you bothered to look VC 64 , uses 3rd party code... the big clue is "powered by" not tried channel tools.. tried boost 11 / rapture / z3ta / dp.... how many Steinberg instruments can you use outside it... speaking of which , to quote from a certain mag.... "makes the amount of instruments in cubase look anemic"

    I use both things... so I think I can be objective... will I upgrade to 5... hhhm not sure yet... I wasn't overly impressed how 3 to 4 was dealt with.. they toook WAY too long up updates.


    Moseph, yep. although years ago a record company I used to help at sometimes for paid for adds on a none legit radio station. Also gave the dj's free records.. it was basically advertising.. much like promos etc.

    post edited by kubalibre - 2009/01/14 10:13:42

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #14
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 10:04:21 (permalink)

    Image shack is the torrent of image hosting... this is straight out of the I don't practice what I preach play book. :-)


    #15
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 10:08:11 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    Image shack is the torrent of image hosting... this is straight out of the I don't practice what I preach play book. :-)



    true... and due to the fact this is pre-release material you are also not allowed to see it (until tomorrow)

    As soon as you open the link, some german speaking FBI agents collaborating with Steinberg will come and arrest you
    post edited by kubalibre - 2009/01/14 10:12:35

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #16
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 10:21:39 (permalink)
    You think this about paranoia?

    That's pitiful.

    This is about making choices about ones personal conduct.

    You repeatedly accuse people of being a pirate and you cite your interest in protecting and maximizing your investment in software as the reason yet you readily bend the rules when it suits your interest.

    Printed and electronic media is software. It is protected with copy rights... and you are blatantly ignoring them.

    Not only that, but you went another step further you invited and encouraged others to conspire in your criminal activities.

    And now true to form your are rationalizing your actions, as has every criminal I have ever been acquainted with, and displaying the results of your efforts as if its a prison tattoo.


    best regards,
    mike


    #17
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 10:27:37 (permalink)
    I also use both programs, but I have to admit Sonar is temporarily de-installed until I see further development (->patches)

    So why are you even here? especially why are you here in the software forum posting ads for cubase? to me, that just sounds like you are just being a troll.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #18
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 10:59:07 (permalink)
    ok.. I ALMOST believed that was a serious post.. but....


    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

    You think this about paranoia?

    That's pitiful.

    This is about making choices about ones personal conduct.

    You repeatedly accuse people of being a pirate and you cite your interest in protecting and maximizing your investment in software as the reason yet you readily bend the rules when it suits your interest.

    Printed and electronic media is software. It is protected with copy rights... and you are blatantly ignoring them.

    Not only that, but you went another step further you invited and encouraged others to conspire in your criminal activities.

    And now true to form your are rationalizing your actions, as has every criminal I have ever been acquainted with, and displaying the results of your efforts as if its a prison tattoo.


    best regards,
    mike


    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #19
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:01:33 (permalink)
    I own that thing and paid hard earned money... so there´s your reason.
    I´ll give it another chance with 8.0.3 anyway

    ORIGINAL: Beagle

    I also use both programs, but I have to admit Sonar is temporarily de-installed until I see further development (->patches)

    So why are you even here? especially why are you here in the software forum posting ads for cubase? to me, that just sounds like you are just being a troll.


    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #20
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:06:26 (permalink)

    I don't judge you... I wasn't placed on the planet to judge others.

    I'm merely serving as a mirror so that you may reflect on your choices.

    best regards,
    mike


    #21
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:13:00 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: kubalibre

    I own that thing and paid hard earned money... so there´s your reason.
    I´ll give it another chance with 8.0.3 anyway

    fair enough about owning the software and having the right to post here, but why do you feel the need to post copyright material on THIS forum with magazine ads of the competition? that still feels like trolling to me.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #22
    jcschild
    Max Output Level: -41 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3409
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 00:20:10
    • Location: Kentucky y'all
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:22:38 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    I don't judge you... I wasn't placed on the planet to judge others.

    I'm merely serving as a mirror so that you may reflect on your choices.

    best regards,
    mike


    rare form today eh? waxing poetic!

    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #23
    jcschild
    Max Output Level: -41 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3409
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 00:20:10
    • Location: Kentucky y'all
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:23:50 (permalink)
    go to gear slutz they have the link up

    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #24
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 11:39:41 (permalink)
    :-)


    #25
    Fog
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 12302
    • Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 13:20:20 (permalink)
    kubalibre, I'm gonna ask you 3 questions.. you tell me.. ok here goes..


    1. I own a DSP factory.. now steinberg is yamaha owned , isn't it a tad WEAK that they decided to drop it in 4.1 and NOT 4.0 ?

    2. My old fav of false advertising... native side chaining advertised, yet not delivered.. is that fair?

    3. 64 bit preview exactly, whats the point.. why didn't they get on with it and put out a 64 bit version... it's more a case of ok.. you want 64 bit pay for it.. are you happy with how LONG they take with their updates. (and last time was only for the AI interfaces, thats the main reason) ?

    and yes you'd like to think steinberg would make a native vst bridge.. after all who invented the standard. hehe

    I use both, aspects of both I like and dislike.. look in any magazine where they interview people and there is a gear list , a lot of the time you'll see 2 or 3 DAW's mentioned.. standardly






    post edited by Fog - 2009/01/14 13:25:19
    #26
    Sonic the Hedgehog
    Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 733
    • Joined: 2006/09/10 13:42:06
    • Location: Montréal, Canada
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 22:11:49 (permalink)
    As someone mentioned erlier, THERE'S A THREAD ON GEARSLUTZ!!! So let's stop playing the Righteous Gentile!

    ''I work to live, but live to make music'' -Mahler
    #27
    montezuma
    Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2520
    • Joined: 2004/10/07 03:44:28
    • Location: Australia
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/14 22:29:27 (permalink)
    You gotta supply your own doorknobs
    #28
    kubalibre
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 614
    • Joined: 2007/07/31 18:25:06
    • Status: offline
    RE: CUBASE 5 -- Who´s got RECORDING MAGAZINE and can do me a favor please?? 2009/01/15 20:50:54 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Fog

    kubalibre, I'm gonna ask you 3 questions.. you tell me.. ok here goes..


    1. I own a DSP factory.. now steinberg is yamaha owned , isn't it a tad WEAK that they decided to drop it in 4.1 and NOT 4.0 ?

    2. My old fav of false advertising... native side chaining advertised, yet not delivered.. is that fair?

    3. 64 bit preview exactly, whats the point.. why didn't they get on with it and put out a 64 bit version... it's more a case of ok.. you want 64 bit pay for it.. are you happy with how LONG they take with their updates. (and last time was only for the AI interfaces, thats the main reason) ?

    and yes you'd like to think steinberg would make a native vst bridge.. after all who invented the standard. hehe

    I use both, aspects of both I like and dislike.. look in any magazine where they interview people and there is a gear list , a lot of the time you'll see 2 or 3 DAW's mentioned.. standardly




    1. yes.. kind of. Sometimes companies make bad decisions...

    2. what? of course.. VST3 is capable of native side chaining. what do you mean..?

    3. now it´s no preview any more. all 64 bit plugins / VST3 included. And very much improved own BitMap Bitbridge (no weak unstable Teleport ripoff). Update cyle. well, two years instead of one, but it does no feel BETA but actually finished and well designed.

    Yes I use also between 3-4 DAWs actually but not alone and for different tasks. Here is Pro Tools, Nuendo 4, an elderly Cubase SL (which will now immediately be updgraded) and Sonar 8. Sonar 8.3 is the last chance. If it doesn´t work like advertised on a 6000 $ machine with 8.3, it will be the end of my personal CW history. :-/

    post edited by kubalibre - 2009/01/15 20:55:13

    ---------------------------------------------
    all crash on the louspeaker
    #29
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1