I am no fan of Apple or the way they do business.  I agree with Gothic Angel

10Ten

southpaw3473 I am no fan of Apple or the way they do business.  I agree with Gothic Angel

I'm not a fan of the way any of them do business including Cake/Roland.

So can/should we assume you don't purchase any of it then?

Fact is Macs (for better or worse) ARE the choice for  the large majority of pros. 

Are PC's better?  They can be,  spec/performance  wise.  But what some of you fail to grasp is that it isn't always about the best performance.    Eye candy,  ergonomics,  ease of use...these are the areas mac has always excelled in.

 PC's are my choice,  but I often wish for the niceties of macs.  However, they are not worth the extra $ to me.  But I do recommend macs every time to people that can afford it.  Precisely because they are PC's that can run Windows and OSX.  The best of all worlds.

 I work on an 8 core mac in the studio.  The thing cost way more than I would ever spendon a computer  for myself.   I'd build something that could smoke it at for a few grand less.  But It was my recommendation that got the Mac for the studio.  Why?  Because every producer that comes by is on a mac.  Pro tools and Logic.  Every client reads whatever article on their fav producer or sees what they use..and it's pretty much always mac.   It's just the way it is.


  I prefer Sonar.  I know its not the tools,  but the operator.  I'm way fast in Sonar.  It's simple and works the way my brain likes to work.   But logic has a lot of cool features and comes with an impressive amount of plugs and programs.  For $500 you can't beat it on any side.  And pro tools has a lot of good things going for it too.  But I personally don't like Pro tools.  I actually kind of dread it. 

However,  there are definitively things Cakewalk could learn from both programs.   Nothing wrong with pointing that out. 

well My mac book pro , which cost me $2000 . is well built , so much nicer than any dell out there.The fit and finish is so professional.  The Os , just works perfect. Hardware has never been easier and more compatible than any pc I ever owned. and.it just works.. 
 Now the desktop today is a different story. I am a mac and a pc lover ..I built my Own desktop and its a beast, and I spent only $1500 , for $1500 Im lucky I can get Imac. with dual core processors, Having Sonar on a mac computer its the same thing. what I dont understand is the whole boot camp thing Your still on Windows. and your hardwares the same as a pc today,,, so your actually wasting money.. why put windows on a mac make NO Sense,, The hardware is the same.. I just love the OSX Os so much more than any version of windows i have ever had. and thats the biggest difference windows .. how many more botched Os's do they have to make.. all previous versions of Osx , was a simple upgrade , never a need to reformat because of a program Like windows 2000, windows me, Vista, or W7. Osx you put in the new version and it updates,. What this tells me is that the Apple engineers are only making the osx better under the existing code. and not developing a new code with all the new problems..if it aint broke dont fix it...  Theses are just my thoughts...
 One last thing do a poll on how many times a user has or will have to do a reformat on there PC or there MAC.. Thats what make MAC Superior.. Maybe W7 might be the best Os widows has had. but I will bet the farm you will still have many more reformats than an OSX. Just remember to partition your hard drive for just your OS .. words of wisdom.. 

What a ridiculous thread. Who's Dr hash?  Gothic Angel, are you trieing to put together the differences between the two different platforms of Os's and DAWs. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with Apple, I've never used it and I don't pledge my allegiance to PC or Mac. Soon they will interchangeable. They are somewhat already. What is the point? Why shouldn't Cakewalk make a Mac version of Sonar?
The learning curve of using either OS and a DAW host tailored to it is basically not much different. There are plus's and minus's of a different nature in both venues.

chilldanny


Wish my AtariST could run Sonar =)

Oh man, I love the Atari ST! That's what I used to use along with Dr.T's KCS software. It was MIDI heaven. No digital audio hard disk recording back then though so you had to mix projects down in real-time to DAT. It was fun.

I actually still have my Atari system and it still works! Although, it's in storage because I don't really have a need for it. I'll have to take it out and set it up again one of these days, just for the heck of it.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/  - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

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Crg


... Soon they will interchangeable.... What is the point? Why shouldn't Cakewalk make a Mac version of Sonar?...
 
 

Sorry to disappoint you... but (one) of the things that keep some (many...) of us away from Apple's toys is that Apple don't conceive interoperability at all... think of its restrictions in terms of audio formats compatibility, for example (see i-Pod, i-Tunes...)... not to mention Logic Pro not supporting VSTs... (sure, you have to use Audio Unit only... who cares about tons of freeware out there made with VST...!!!)   Come on......!!!
 
 I wish ALL programs were interchangeable.... it would be very fair... but unfortunately things don't work like that...
and what Apple does is just "hooking" customers to their sickening "anti-media-freedom" world, made of silly "all-i-tools"...
 
again, I don't consider that informatics...
 
These are reasons, may you agree or not....

djjhart@aol.com You can use a 3rd party Vst Wrapper for Logic... So I was working with logic all day today , Took a break from sonar. Oh how nice Automation Is.. using Nodes are easy, drawing a simple straight line can be done in 2 clicks. no grabbing the wrong automation , no accidently moving the clip. I just really enjoyed using automation today. I dread it in Sonar right now... Sonar 9 .. Pls redo the automation.. oh and the flex tool it completely Rocks.  If sonar gets ACT to work correct, Automation cleaned up, redo the GUI, add some tabs instead of cluttered Icons as they did with loop explorer. and steal the flex tool . OMG nothing would compare ..and a sampler like in Abelton ..Oh how nice that would be.. 

Yep, simplify exporting, fix copy/paste, improve the engine, create a way to constrain tool/clip movement or drawing and a few other things and it would be awesome. Instead we'll probably wind up with another crappy plugin (Boost11?) or 10 new half done "features".

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
...it would really be hard to make a case to any informed person that a Mac Pro is somehow a superior computer to a well built PC (i.e. standardized PC running Windows vs OSX).

I guess the real trick is defining "standardized".  Can you list the components for a "standardized" i7?  If Cake would tell it's customers exactly which components they recommend (not a pre-built rig from a vendor) I'm sure it could cut down a lot of their customer support calls.  This is exactly what Digidesign/Avid does and it's the safest way for customers to build rigs that will jive with the software.

If Sonar was ported to Mac, I would buy a Mac as soon as I could afford it.  The main things stopping me from going Mac:
-PTHD entry price too steep
-Don't want to buy + learn another new DAW(Cubase/Logic).  I've learned three- that's enough DAW menus to last me a lifetime (and I despise Digital Performer with a passion)

sonar was the first DAW I ever learned - - I liked it - and it was better than my old tascam 4 track from 1986 - and better than my fostex digital 8 track from 1998 - 


so for now thats what I like - 
 

Thats my line

eratu

gothic.angel

 
IMO, We, SONAR owners, wouldn't like to see our chosen DAW reduced on a system whose new factory's prior targets have become kids and Yuppies playing with expensive "i-games".

I respectfully disagree with this statement.

First, because it seems like you assume to be speaking for all of us.

Second, because that's just simply an inaccurate description of Mac pro-audio users. Sure, there are plenty of i-games folks on Macs, but there are plenty of pros and wanna-be pros on Macs, and a HUGE market of potential customers of creative amateurs and professionals alike.

Every filmmaker I know uses a Mac. Every one. Half the pro DJs I know use Macs. Over half the pro studios I know use Macs. Over half the professional producers I know use Macs. It's a valid, professional market with a ton of creative people making music, and Cakewalk should always be aware of the appropriate markets and competition.

There are plenty of pros out there using ProTools, Logic, Digital Performer, Live, and many others on Macs and frankly Cakewalk would be grossly negligent to its shareholders if it at least didn't do a feasibility study of what they can port/develop over to the OSX platform. The marketshare has increased percentage-wise (for good or ill) and if you watch trends, you'd be missing a lot of potential opportunity if you didn't try to take that into account.

Having said that, I don't believe it's possible (or likely smart) for Cakewalk to spend resources trying to port the existing Sonar codebase over to the Mac platform, from what I understand of it (and I'm not an insider by any means). Sonar is so Windows-centric and most likely steeped in vast amounts of Windows-specific code, I just don't see a Sonar port ever happening. Rather, if they did it, I imagine it would be on top of a brand new cross-platform library/core code for a brand new product. So it may or may not ever happen, due to the vast amount of investment they'd have to do.

And also, if they did it, they wouldn't be idiots about it, so why the worry? They'd have the proper budget, development infrastructure and teams in place to do it right. No CEO worth his/her salt would ever proceed otherwise, especially in such a competitive market. Also, they'd be doing it not because they're chasing a fad of silly i-whatever users, they'd do it because they plan on MAKING MONEY. That's the whole point of a business. To sell products to a market and make a profit. They wouldn't do it for fun or for charity. They have to pay bills, salaries.

Frankly, I think Cakewalk might HAVE to consider something like this for the next generation beyond Sonar. Several superb DAW apps are now cross-platform and the business opportunity may (or may not) be sitting right there in front of them.

Add to all that, the fact that Roland is not platform-dependent. They have a vested interest as well. So while their competitors such as Yamaha and to a lesser extent, Presonus, already have cross-platform apps, Roland does not. And look at what Live has accomplished in such a short lifespan. In Europe, it is HUGE from what I understand, a lot of plugin developers are using that now as one of the key plugin-compatibility testing platforms. The World is the market here, not just good ol' USA.

And also, if Cakewalk DOES decide to develop more Mac products (keep in mind it already has a couple of Mac products, if you're not aware!), that doesn't by default mean they're stealing important resources from Windows development.

On a personal note, while I'm a Windows user, and chose Windows over Mac for many reasons,  I have no problem whatsoever if Cakewalk decides to develop for Macs. Frankly, it might be a good thing in the long run, if they have a good game plan and proper investment/budget. It's nothing to fear, and posts like yours, especially when they seem to try to speak for all of us, just perpetuate a divide in the computer world. For me, it's about getting the best products on a professional, stable platform that works great for my projects. You can accomplish that on Windows or Macs. Who cares about petty disputes between platforms any more? I hope we're way beyond that now, and just need to encourage our developers to develop the best product possible so we can produce music the best way we can.

And on a practical level, even if you never deal with the Mac version of Sonar's offspring, a Mac version might make working with Apple-based filmmakers and producers, for example, much more smooth... even for Windows-only users. It might actually *improve* things, unify things to a degree we haven't seen before. And if it makes Sonar more competitive in all markets, it would also make the company more stable. Again, a win-win scenario.

Just my two bits. :)

Best, James

That is one of the most astute responses I've ever seen with regard to this ongoing concern.  I happen to agree fully with you.
 
 

2) not so fun


anyone else have some insights on this?

btw.. i guess that 80% of the few logic bashers here have never used it for even a minute (same for the protools haters)

My question is related to choice...

What happens when you have the PT HD up and someone walks in and wants to play with Logic?

Do you boot up another system?

1) fun?
2) not so fun?
3) don't know?

info@tomflair.com

btw.. i guess that 80% of the few logic bashers here have never used it for even a minute (same for the protools haters)

Such a true Statement...






If You have never used Logic , You really shouldn't make a comment.. By no means am i dissing Sonar.  but Logic is so much cleaner looking without having to spend wasteful time to customize . Its just works.. and to have 5 icons at the top just for selection tools is ****ed , you say you dont like
drop down menus.. Have you used Logic ? I dout it caus of the defensive post. anyone who has used both , knows the truth.. some are stuck in sonars fantasy land. Yes sonar is the daw I use regular. but I keep an open mind.. 

As far as the learning curve . Sonar is by far the most complicated daw out there.. Anyone here that is proficient with Sonar will be able to pick up Logic or Abelton and start recording right away. Its that simple. But not the other way around..