Helpful ReplyCakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul

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dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/15 16:26:52 (permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Kylotan
But for me the main issue I have is that of tracking new plugins...



Yeah I agree that the ability to see newly discovered plugins and those not already in layouts would be handy. We have those as FR's I think.




And...yeah...I hadn't read the whole thread yet.
 
So...let me make just one more plug for this feature.
 
+2

Dan Tarbill
#31
Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/15 20:13:33 (permalink)
I like this idea too. Just out of curiosity, what "unreds" them? Do they unred the next time you load the program, or do you have to do something manually? IOW how does the program decide they're not "new" any more, and how is this indicated?

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KPerry
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/16 01:20:24 (permalink)
The way I do it in my CupCake (search the forum for it) is to save a current list on program exit and compare with what's there on load/next scan (with option to not save current list on exit).
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Kylotan
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/16 05:19:26 (permalink)
The other alternative is what has been mentioned already - the ability to sort plugins by installation (or first-scan) date. That way, even if it's been a couple of restarts since they were first found, I'll still see them at the top of the list and will know they are a candidate for being added to my custom menus.

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/16 06:52:36 (permalink)
If there is any way to have plugin diagnostics/logs via the plugin manager that would be nice. In these forums (and no doubt others) we ask people to rule out dodgy plugins if they have an issue. If we are lucky there will be a message in the windows event viewer. It may be a restriction of VST (and certainly third party code) but I wonder if more could be done to diagnose plugin issues.
 
The added bonus is it might help cakewalk technical support.
 
Another thing would be to wrap the plugins in some sort of virtualization so if they crash cakewalk won't.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/16 07:00:25

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dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/16 08:31:53 (permalink)
Anderton
I like this idea too. Just out of curiosity, what "unreds" them? Do they unred the next time you load the program, or do you have to do something manually? IOW how does the program decide they're not "new" any more, and how is this indicated?



How 'bout, you highlight all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once?  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).

Dan Tarbill
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brconflict
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/20 12:59:26 (permalink)
I'll add one suggestion, which should be simple. Allow only one instance of the Plug-In manager to open at any one time. You can currently open multiple instances of it, which I can't think of how that could be useful. If the Plug-In manager is open, and you try to open it again in Sonar, just give me an error so I can go find it or kill it, rather than just opening a second instance. Thanks!

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/20 13:17:59 (permalink)
brconflict
I'll add one suggestion, which should be simple. Allow only one instance of the Plug-In manager to open at any one time. You can currently open multiple instances of it, which I can't think of how that could be useful. If the Plug-In manager is open, and you try to open it again in Sonar, just give me an error so I can go find it or kill it, rather than just opening a second instance. Thanks!


Much like drummaps UI should be, it should be a dockable.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/20 13:24:52

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#38
robert_e_bone
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/20 14:04:36 (permalink)
To the person above,who was having issues with the naming of the 3 Kontakt dll versions, whenever i install Kontakt and new dll versions are put out there, I always go in through the Plugin-Manager.
 
(Edited below to fix wording a bit)
 
Once in the list of VSTi instruments, I scroll down to the 3 Kontakt entries, and click once on the 1st one, to highlight it.  This also will display the and pull up the Properties of each of those 3 Kontakt dll versions, and from the Details you can see the number of outputs, which is what makes each of those different.  I then click OK to get back to the main Properties window, and at the top of that window is a text box with the ability to type into it to alter the plugin's name.  I then will rename each of the Kontakt dll versions with an indication of how many outputs each has, so that when they display, in any program, you can see which one is which.
 
I happen to name mine: Kontakt 5 - 08 Outs, Kontakt 5 - 16 Outs, and Kontakt 5 - 64 Outs.
 
The above has always worked for me, and is how I intend to continue, since it works well for my needs.
 
Hope that helps, 
 
Bob Bone
 
post edited by robert_e_bone - 2015/07/21 01:28:27

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KPerry
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/21 07:02:25 (permalink)
brconflict
I'll add one suggestion, which should be simple. Allow only one instance of the Plug-In manager to open at any one time. You can currently open multiple instances of it, which I can't think of how that could be useful. If the Plug-In manager is open, and you try to open it again in Sonar, just give me an error so I can go find it or kill it, rather than just opening a second instance. Thanks!




I've just tested this (on Platinum) and can only open one instance, whether I open it directly or via SONAR, or a comibation of the two (ie. open one directly, open SONAR, open PIM from within SONAR and the one I originally opened is brought into focus).
 
I do agree that opening multiples at the same time could be...confusing, shall we say!
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jeff oliver
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/21 07:14:57 (permalink)
Craig Anderton got some great plugs I use all the time and would like to move them to certain groups; guitars, drums etc. Is there a way to do this in the PIM? They don't seem to be "manageable". Yes, they are already in groups but I have made global groups that's easier for me to get what I need. Or am I missing a step? Thanks :)
post edited by jeff oliver - 2015/07/21 07:24:24
#41
Kylotan
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/21 14:47:31 (permalink)
Jeff, you can drag plugins around within the menu editor on the right-hand side. Is that what you're looking for?

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jeff oliver
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/21 17:21:10 (permalink)
Thanks Kylotan for your response. I'll look again soon as I get home. I can move the plugins around inside the manager but the Craig Anderton don't show up. Maybe I'm in the wrong menu. Thanks again!
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KPerry
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/22 02:11:56 (permalink)
Craig's FX are chains of FX, not individual ones so won't appear in the plug-in manager (not a bad idea though to be able to add chains to custom menus!).
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mudgel
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/22 08:45:40 (permalink)
I thought Noel's idea to work towards having plugin management take place within the browser as a much better long term solution.

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2015/07/22 08:51:12 (permalink)
I agree Mike.
 
I still use the PIM for setting up my own presets, but once I'm done with that, it's all accessible from within the browser.

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Marconix1
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/04 21:13:38 (permalink)
jsg
vmw
The plugin manager has become like the staff view, which are two areas suffering neglect. (This BTW is not to start an argument on the staff view)
The plugin manager needs refining to make it scan faster and the GUI needs some thought as well, it has been the same for multiple editions going back years. It is all well and good supplying new plugins and content through the membership model; but it would be far more appreciated if you looked at something as basic as the plugin manager and its performance.




What do you want it to do?  Plug-in Manager works fine here (Platinum).  It's just a utility that scans for plugins, scans as fast or faster than other DAWS. 
 
JG

 


That's exactly right. Out in the cold for all the rest of the plugins. With proper thought and planning a PIM overhaul could really be helpful to workflows.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/04 21:23:10 (permalink)
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 

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dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 08:31:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rtucker55 2016/07/05 08:53:25
chuckebaby
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 


As I've mentioned before...there's no good way to see when new plugs aren't included in a custom plugin layout.
 
I suggest highlighting all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once.  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).
post edited by dantarbill - 2016/07/05 08:54:46

Dan Tarbill
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 09:24:00 (permalink)
dantarbill
chuckebaby
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 


As I've mentioned before...there's no good way to see when new plugs aren't included in a custom plugin layout.
 
I suggest highlighting all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once.  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).


fair enough.
I don't use the plug in manager to create custom layouts.
I find the most productive way to keep your menus organized is to create nest folders within windows explorer.
when I install new plug ins, I create a folder called Example "Overloud"
now any new plug in I install I install it to the overloud folder in windows explorer
(this folder is in program files\cakewalk\vst plug ins.
 
even if you have nested folders in the cakewalk\vst plug ins folder they still get scanned.
every file, folder in that directory is scanned by default.
it takes about as much time as creating a custom plug in menu wouldn't you agree ?
 

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dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 11:09:23 (permalink)
chuckebaby
dantarbill
chuckebaby
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 


As I've mentioned before...there's no good way to see when new plugs aren't included in a custom plugin layout.
 
I suggest highlighting all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once.  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).


fair enough.
I don't use the plug in manager to create custom layouts.
I find the most productive way to keep your menus organized is to create nest folders within windows explorer.
when I install new plug ins, I create a folder called Example "Overloud"
now any new plug in I install I install it to the overloud folder in windows explorer
(this folder is in program files\cakewalk\vst plug ins.
 
even if you have nested folders in the cakewalk\vst plug ins folder they still get scanned.
every file, folder in that directory is scanned by default.
it takes about as much time as creating a custom plug in menu wouldn't you agree ?
 




I do the same nested folder thing that you do...but they all get scanned together in the same big heap.  The folder structure doesn't appear in the available plugin list.  Besides, you'll typically divy up plugin folders by vendor...but the most useful organization for fx plugs is by functional area.  Besides that, there are plugins that cover multiple functional areas...and thus it makes sense to be able to include them in multiple places in the same plugin layout.
 
And...I have some better ideas for showing new plugs.  It'd be nice to have a check box to only show available plugins that aren't yet included in the currently selected plugin layout.  Or...put a (new) bullet of some sort besides un-included plugs.  (That means that don't suddenly disappear from the list when you put them in the layout...in case you want to also put them in a different category.

Dan Tarbill
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 12:31:56 (permalink)
dantarbill
chuckebaby
dantarbill
chuckebaby
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 


As I've mentioned before...there's no good way to see when new plugs aren't included in a custom plugin layout.
 
I suggest highlighting all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once.  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).


fair enough.
I don't use the plug in manager to create custom layouts.
I find the most productive way to keep your menus organized is to create nest folders within windows explorer.
when I install new plug ins, I create a folder called Example "Overloud"
now any new plug in I install I install it to the overloud folder in windows explorer
(this folder is in program files\cakewalk\vst plug ins.
 
even if you have nested folders in the cakewalk\vst plug ins folder they still get scanned.
every file, folder in that directory is scanned by default.
it takes about as much time as creating a custom plug in menu wouldn't you agree ?
 




I do the same nested folder thing that you do...but they all get scanned together in the same big heap. 



 
hmm, that's strange. mine show up nested. in different folders, different category's.
try using the default menu and see what happens.
 

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#52
dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 12:50:30 (permalink)
chuckebaby
dantarbill
chuckebaby
dantarbill
chuckebaby
what would you suggest ?
I mean is there something the plug in manager does not do right now ?
 

As I've mentioned before...there's no good way to see when new plugs aren't included in a custom plugin layout.
 
I suggest highlighting all the registered plugins that are in the currently open Plug-in Menu Layout at least once.  That way, anything you haven't dealt with will be (what...lowlighted?).


fair enough.
I don't use the plug in manager to create custom layouts.
I find the most productive way to keep your menus organized is to create nest folders within windows explorer.
when I install new plug ins, I create a folder called Example "Overloud"
now any new plug in I install I install it to the overloud folder in windows explorer
(this folder is in program files\cakewalk\vst plug ins.
 
even if you have nested folders in the cakewalk\vst plug ins folder they still get scanned.
every file, folder in that directory is scanned by default.
it takes about as much time as creating a custom plug in menu wouldn't you agree ?




I do the same nested folder thing that you do...but they all get scanned together in the same big heap. 



hmm, that's strange. mine show up nested. in different folders, different category's.
try using the default menu and see what happens.




I think the "default layout" does a fairly (almost) useful job with VST3 plugins since they seem to have functional attributes defined (probably as part of the VST3 spec).  But even then...they are fairly "coarse" categories.  For instance, dynamics should break down further by single band, multiple band, limiter, etc.
 
For VST2...you're right...they seem to break down by subdirectory...but that's fairly useless when you have comps and EQ by 7 or more different vendors.  When you're looking for a different compressor...I'd rather not have to remember who all does compressors.
 
When it gets outside "meat and potatoes" categories, things get weirder.  There are some plugs so odd that I've put them in a category called "Mayhem" for things that rip apart your sound in ways that defy description.  The automated default will tend hide those in vendor categories that give no hint to what they do.
 
Oh...and on the "scanned together in the same big heap" thing.  I was talking about the presentation in the plugin manager itself...not in the default plugin layout.
post edited by dantarbill - 2016/07/05 13:37:34

Dan Tarbill
#53
chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/05 16:09:27 (permalink)
Dan,
I can respect that.
it would be nice to have some upgrades to locating things faster.
I prefer a few upgrades in other areas but you know, everyone's needs are different, then there's the generalized needs. which I think your right PIM could use some work/an upgrade. I mean im okay with it, but im all for "better" in any areas of Sonar
you make some good points.

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#54
Sijel
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/06 17:07:49 (permalink)
+1

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Sijel
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/06 17:10:04 (permalink)
John T
The other day, I installed a plug in and forgot to close Sonar first, which I always assumed I needed to do. But no, the little blue box popped up and it got scanned and all was fine. Which was cool. I think the scanning bit's great.
 
I think the UI of the Plug In Manager is hideous, but it's not a huge priority, I don't reckon. Showing new plug ins on custom menus, as previously mentioned, is the only really useful change I can think of.


+1

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dantarbill
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/06 17:38:00 (permalink)
Sijel
John T
 
I think the UI of the Plug In Manager is hideous...

+1




This deep in the system's innerds...I don't mind a little "hideous" as long as it's functional and useful.

Dan Tarbill
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bitman
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/06 22:09:47 (permalink)
I think it would be an improvement if we could right click on that new plugin we now like in the fx bin or on the insert plugin list and "send to" the plugin layout and folder of our liking.

lsb
 
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#58
chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/07 07:48:10 (permalink)
bitman
I think it would be an improvement if we could right click on that new plugin we now like in the fx bin or on the insert plugin list and "send to" the plugin layout and folder of our liking.


I agree. but even better would be a copy (of the name).
this way you wouldn't move something and forget where you put it.

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#59
joel77
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Re: Cakewalk Plugin Manager Needs A Major Overhaul 2016/07/13 09:22:14 (permalink)
Kylotan
The plugin manager does need some love - full drag and drop of plugins across the whole window would be helpful, and showing more details in the list rather than just a name would also be beneficial. But for me the main issue I have is that of tracking new plugins - I can't see at a glance which plugins aren't included in the current menu configuration, which means that when Sonar discovers new plugins (as it often seems to do these days after an update), I have no idea what they are or how to get them into my menus. FL Studio has/had a solution to the latter - after a scan finds new plugins, they show up as red in the list for the rest of that session, so you know they're new. But there are potential other alternatives - be able to list plugins by when they were first found, or last updated, have an 'all other plugins' option on a layout that shows any that aren't already in the layout, etc.


I agree with Ben; this would make identifying new plugs much easier.


 

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