poetnprophet
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Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
Hey everyone, I'm back with another slew of issues and can't figure out how to resolve. I've also got a ticket open with Bandlab, but no solutions yet.
Computer specs are in my sig, dedicated DAW. I am using a Motu 828es audio interface. The crashing sometimes happens immediately, sometimes I can work an hour before a crash. It happens on small projects and large. Small buffer size or large. Sometimes while recording. Sometimes while saving. Sometime while editing waves. Sometime while adjusting a plugin. Sometimes while changing a track name....etc.
I have disabled network, defender, power management for usb, c-states, changed ini settings and buffers and I think every trick in the book. Everything works flawlessly and fast until it doesn't and it requires a restart. No dump files are created when it crashes. Running latency monitor and everything is still well in the green during a crash, no page faults reported. I have also disabled the onboard audio and video in device manager.
I have tried opening projects in safe mode, but after all plugins are eventually loaded and I'm working again it crashes the same. I just can't seem to pinpoint what is going on. It's hurting my work and worse, hurting my business.
I'm kinda desperate now, I don't know much about how to figure this out, if anyone has any advice I'm all ears.
thanks
Dave
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karhide
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/13 17:54:27
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This sounds like one of the plugins in the projects are not playing nice. With all the plugins disabled does CbB crash?
If you disable all the plugins and then enable one by one and test as you should hopefully find the plugin.
Studio: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 32GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace UFX - Focusrite OctoPre MK II - Audient Mico Mobile: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace 400 Mobile2: Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM 256 GB System Drive Windows 10 64 bit http://www.karhide.co.uk/https://karhide.bandcamp.com
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/13 18:18:17
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HI karhide, I have tried that. I only tried once and I got through all the plugins, then it crashed after doing other editing tasks.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/13 18:45:03
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I agree that this will be a plug in. Your computer is not the issue unless you have a faulty component.
I would look at your plug ins and defiantly if there are any 32 bit.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/13 19:04:31
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Ok I'll take another crack at safe mode and try all the plugs. There are definitely no 32 bits in any but 1 project (out of a dozen).
How do I know which plugin if I can activate them all without crashes, but it crashes later on something (seemingly) unrelated like saving, or volume automation?
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Euthymia
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/14 04:49:24
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You say the system is a dedicated DAW, so there are seldom any tasks done on it besides Cakewalk, therefore difficult to determine whether it's a hardware or driver issue.
The following questions are my standard PC troubleshooting queries.
The system never crashes when it's just sitting there at idle?
Are you up to date with your video driver? Is this a recent issue? If so, can you recall anything changing about your config right before it started happening?
Have you checked your Windows Update to see if it installed a new driver for anything?
Do you know how to check your System Logs? If so, do they show anything?
If this is a recent development, do you have a Restore Point you can revert to from before the problem started happening?
The above will help you eliminate the OS and hardware as the source of the problem. I've had troubles with video cards and drivers and my DAW's. Plug-ins love to use those fancy GUI's, and I think some of them may even use the GPU for processing. All the redrawing and stuff we do is taxing on the 2D capability of a video card, and video cards tend to be optimized for 3D. The nVidia cards pay attention to 2D speed, especially the Quadros. That's what they use for the big displays at airports and such.
So make sure your video card driver is up to date, or if it is, maybe roll it back or try the Microsoft one instead of the vendor one.
-Erik ___________ 3.4 GHz i7-3770, 8G RAM, Win 7 64-bit2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20bas, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point SevensCakewalk by BandLab, Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5Warning: if you tell me my issue can be remedied by buying more RAM, an SSD, or a Waves plug-in, I will troll you pitiilessly
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msmcleod
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/14 09:54:15
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poetnprophet
Hey everyone, I'm back with another slew of issues and can't figure out how to resolve. I've also got a ticket open with Bandlab, but no solutions yet.
Computer specs are in my sig, dedicated DAW. I am using a Motu 828es audio interface. The crashing sometimes happens immediately, sometimes I can work an hour before a crash. It happens on small projects and large. Small buffer size or large. Sometimes while recording. Sometimes while saving. Sometime while editing waves. Sometime while adjusting a plugin. Sometimes while changing a track name....etc.
I have disabled network, defender, power management for usb, c-states, changed ini settings and buffers and I think every trick in the book. Everything works flawlessly and fast until it doesn't and it requires a restart. No dump files are created when it crashes. Running latency monitor and everything is still well in the green during a crash, no page faults reported. I have also disabled the onboard audio and video in device manager.
I have tried opening projects in safe mode, but after all plugins are eventually loaded and I'm working again it crashes the same. I just can't seem to pinpoint what is going on. It's hurting my work and worse, hurting my business.
I'm kinda desperate now, I don't know much about how to figure this out, if anyone has any advice I'm all ears.
thanks
Dave
I've been suffering from BSOD on my studio PC occasionally for a few months now on what seemed to be a random basis. In the end I found I could make it happen more often by opening up lots of browsers playing youtube videos. Yesterday I managed to narrow it down to a bad memory module: The BIOS was reporting that one of my DDR3 modules was claiming to be running at a faster speed to the others (even though it's labelled otherwise). Removing the offending module fixed the issue, and I've now got a new matched memory pair on order. It might be worth running a memory test to see if your issue is something similar. It's a tricky thing to track down as (at least in my case), it didn't fail consisently, and for the most part my studio PC was otherwise rock solid.
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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Audioicon
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 15:28:15
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Euthymia
Have you checked your Windows Update to see if it installed a new driver for anything?
I am just curious. Again for my own knowledge. Do you update Windows, if so how do you run your updates? I do not run updates and when I do, I simply update very specific things. What I am saying is, if it is not broken, then don't fix it. But I also understand the importance of updates which is why I am asking. Thanks!
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 16:28:41
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Hey everyone, I went through the plugins and no matter which ones I disable, I still get a crash. I also updated the video card drivers. I do not know how to check system logs or how to test memory, if anyone has a dummy-version walk through, please do share. A bit of history: this is a new computer build from early May, so I have nothing to fall back on. Previously I was using the old VS700 audio interface and had dropouts. Thread here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sudden-audio-dropout-all-meters-working-no-routinglevel-changes-m3759870.aspx#3770525I tried another audio interface and those dropouts disappeared completely, so I figured that was the issue. I got crashes, too...but they were second to the audio dropouts. Also the previous crashes would give me dumps, and I don't get those anymore. I am now using a Motu 828es. It has no drivers. I don't know if it's that, or some other hardware, or other software. I do windows updates, but I've had issues since I first used this computer combo so I can't tell if it's due to any updates. I do them manually, but tend to just do all updates because I don't know what's important or not. Edit: the system does not crash or even hiccup when idle. The ONLY thing that crashes is Cakewalk. Sometimes CW will load, and immediately crash and close before I can even select a project. Everything else still works flawlessly even in the middle of a crash. LatencyMon will still run and be in the green, and CAM or Task Manager will run in real time. Also, Cakewalk never crashes during playback. It has during recording several times, but never seems to do it during playback.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 16:34:10
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What do you mean it has no drivers? It must. And is not Thunderbolt a known issue with PC?
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Audioicon
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 16:45:17
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poetnprophet
I do not know how to check system logs or how to test memory, if anyone has a dummy-version walk through, please do share.
I am so sorry to hear about your troubles and I will also say that it is absolutely ridiculous that any artist user any versions of Sonar is expected to have knowledge of system logs. You are a musician and you should have a system which allows you to focus of creativity, not thesis in info tech. No one said this but I am just as frustrated as you. With that said, I will strongly advise the following: - Do you have a Backup of your system which was working well and you can simply restore to that point?
- Is it easier to simply go back to square 1? Sometimes performing all these troubleshooting can quickly lead you into a rabbit hole and never ending hair pulling.
- Sometimes it is just easier to start over.
I am not saying you should but this is the reason I used Windows Server (another story). I have had crashes but over all, my system is enterprise level stable. And there are extremely limited crap running by Windows itself. Hope you can find a solution. AI
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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JonD
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 16:51:10
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SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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JonD
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 16:55:55
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Audioicon
I am so sorry to hear about your troubles and I will also say that it is absolutely ridiculous that any artist user any versions of Sonar is expected to have knowledge of system logs.
Don't you mean user of any DAW? There's no reason to single out Sonar any more than there'd be a reason to single out that he's using an HP or Dell computer....
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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Audioicon
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 17:10:26
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JonD
Audioicon
I am so sorry to hear about your troubles and I will also say that it is absolutely ridiculous that any artist user any versions of Sonar is expected to have knowledge of system logs.
Don't you mean user of any DAW? There's no reason to single out Sonar any more than there'd be a reason to single out that he's using an HP or Dell computer....
Given the OP/User is experiencing issues with Sonar my comment is not about "Any DAW." Why should I or would I comment on Any DAW when the issue here as reported by the OP is regards to using Sonar? Please go back and read my post and if possible put down the cool-aid first.  I never said the issue is with Sonar, again, I even talked about using Windows Server. I wont get sucked into a Cool-Aid driven battle.
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 17:20:36
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I wouldn't worry about every Windows update.. but I would be concerned with... MS Visual + C++
If your crashing before even opening a project this is a tell tale sign.
Find the newest ones on the Microsoft site. (sorry not leaving links) google is your BFF.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 17:25:25
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Cactus Music
What do you mean it has no drivers? It must. And is not Thunderbolt a known issue with PC?
I'm using it via USB2/3, I'm not quite sure exactly how it works but I didn't have to download or install any drivers.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 17:26:41
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chuckebaby
I wouldn't worry about every Windows update.. but I would be concerned with... MS Visual + C++
If your crashing before even opening a project this is a tell tale sign.
Find the newest ones on the Microsoft site. (sorry not leaving links) google is your BFF.
I will check. I did all the updates yesterday. It doesn't crash this way every time, but once a day for sure. So, just check for the newest Visual C++ drivers from MS?
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Cactus Music
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 18:36:15
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poetnprophet
Cactus Music
What do you mean it has no drivers? It must. And is not Thunderbolt a known issue with PC?
I'm using it via USB2/3, I'm not quite sure exactly how it works but I didn't have to download or install any drivers.
It's funny no one mentioned this as I guess we just assumed you had already done so. You ALWAYS download and install the latest ASIO driver for all audio interfaces,, this is super critical otherwise you must be using a generic sub par driver. http://motu.com/download
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Euthymia
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 18:43:25
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Audioicon
Euthymia
Have you checked your Windows Update to see if it installed a new driver for anything?
I am just curious. Again for my own knowledge. Do you update Windows, if so how do you run your updates?
I do not run updates and when I do, I simply update very specific things.
What I am saying is, if it is not broken, then don't fix it. But I also understand the importance of updates which is why I am asking.
Thanks!
I have my updates set to download, then ask me before installing them. That way I can go through the Windows Update dialog and see which ones I want to install and do not want to install. For instance, I would not let Windows Update install any hardware drivers, but I do let it update definitions for Windows Defender, things like that that I know are likely to have little impact. And as I was the one who asked the OP if he knew how to check his system logs, I did just that: asked him if he knew. No expectation that he would, but sometimes people do, and if they do, it's a place to check. A Windows System Event Log can show whether something happened in the instant right before the system went kablooie (technical term). If that something is in a hardware subsystem, then you know where to poke around. It could say that the video driver shat the bed (another technical term), or maybe USB, or hard drive or whatever. Maybe there's nothing. I learned about them when I was a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. Of course these things should all just work perfectly and we should all be free to use our tools for our art and never have to get under the hood but that's never been the case for all users and it still isn't. Systems as complex as these will go boing sometimes. DAW and video editing software really challenge a PC when it comes to compatibility.
-Erik ___________ 3.4 GHz i7-3770, 8G RAM, Win 7 64-bit2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20bas, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point SevensCakewalk by BandLab, Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5Warning: if you tell me my issue can be remedied by buying more RAM, an SSD, or a Waves plug-in, I will troll you pitiilessly
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Audioicon
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 19:01:32
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Euthymia
Audioicon
Euthymia
Have you checked your Windows Update to see if it installed a new driver for anything?
I am just curious. Again for my own knowledge. Do you update Windows, if so how do you run your updates?
I do not run updates and when I do, I simply update very specific things.
What I am saying is, if it is not broken, then don't fix it. But I also understand the importance of updates which is why I am asking.
Thanks!
I have my updates set to download, then ask me before installing them. That way I can go through the Windows Update dialog and see which ones I want to install and do not want to install.
For instance, I would not let Windows Update install any hardware drivers, but I do let it update definitions for Windows Defender, things like that that I know are likely to have little impact.
And as I was the one who asked the OP if he knew how to check his system logs, I did just that: asked him if he knew. No expectation that he would, but sometimes people do, and if they do, it's a place to check. A Windows System Event Log can show whether something happened in the instant right before the system went kablooie (technical term). If that something is in a hardware subsystem, then you know where to poke around. It could say that the video driver shat the bed (another technical term), or maybe USB, or hard drive or whatever. Maybe there's nothing. I learned about them when I was a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer.
Of course these things should all just work perfectly and we should all be free to use our tools for our art and never have to get under the hood but that's never been the case for all users and it still isn't. Systems as complex as these will go boing sometimes. DAW and video editing software really challenge a PC when it comes to compatibility.
Thank you. I get the point of your question and I was simply speaking in general as to what is expected of a user, especially given most people just want to make music, have fun and be creative. And you are a very advanced user based on your certification which is a plus. Maybe you can remote in and help the OP. 
Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 19:17:06
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Cactus Music
poetnprophet
Cactus Music
What do you mean it has no drivers? It must. And is not Thunderbolt a known issue with PC?
I'm using it via USB2/3, I'm not quite sure exactly how it works but I didn't have to download or install any drivers.
It's funny no one mentioned this as I guess we just assumed you had already done so.
You ALWAYS download and install the latest ASIO driver for all audio interfaces,, this is super critical otherwise you must be using a generic sub par driver.
http://motu.com/download
The interface is maybe 2 weeks old, yes the first thing I did was download the app and update the firmware on the device. Doesn't seem like there is a specific "driver" per se, seems like just an app for "discovery" and that's it....but what do I know? My point is, there is nothing to update on that device at this point.
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Wibbles
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 19:44:01
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 19:48:31
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Sure did, i almost have it memorized.
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JonD
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/16 21:41:22
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Audioicon
Given the OP/User is experiencing issues with Sonar my comment is not about "Any DAW."
Why should I or would I comment on Any DAW when the issue here as reported by the OP is regards to using Sonar?
Please go back and read my post and if possible put down the cool-aid first.
I never said the issue is with Sonar, again, I even talked about using Windows Server.
I wont get sucked into a Cool-Aid driven battle.
No Cool-Aid driven battle intended (I own four different DAWs, so wouldn't be qualified to dispense any one flavor of Kool-aid). I apologize for believing you were "picking on" Sonar. When I read it, that's how it came across. I was told I'm getting grouchier in my old age. I've stopped yelling at kids to get off my lawn, but then the pent-up stress only finds its way here. In the future I promise to direct my grumpiness where it belongs -- at the neighborhood kids. 
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/20 19:01:22
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Update:. I thought I had it figured out. I disabled all plugins on a very small project. Still crashed. I noticed that it seems to happen exclusively when I stop transport. Also seems to happen more with waveform edits: splits, fades, trims etc.
I forgot I had pro channel modules so I disabled those. There is another thread mentioned the console emulator. Then, I was able to work for about 3 hrs without a crash. But it did finally crash, again when I stopped transport. Had another crash shortly after that, but did finish the 4 hr session.
Someone mentioned bad memory. I ran a memory test and all checked out.
I also disabled onboard video in the bios.
Any other ideas, anything I can test?
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msmcleod
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/20 19:51:03
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poetnprophet
Update:. I thought I had it figured out. I disabled all plugins on a very small project. Still crashed. I noticed that it seems to happen exclusively when I stop transport. Also seems to happen more with waveform edits: splits, fades, trims etc.
I forgot I had pro channel modules so I disabled those. There is another thread mentioned the console emulator. Then, I was able to work for about 3 hrs without a crash. But it did finally crash, again when I stopped transport. Had another crash shortly after that, but did finish the 4 hr session.
Someone mentioned bad memory. I ran a memory test and all checked out.
I also disabled onboard video in the bios.
Any other ideas, anything I can test?
What type of crashes are you getting? - i.e... is it a blue screen? - if so, what type of error code does it give? Does cakewalk just freeze or quit? Is the computer still usable immediately after the crash or do you have to reboot? [Edit] - Just thought of another possible issue. I had crashes really early on with OneDrive trying to access my audio files whilst I was in Cakewalk/Sonar. I ended up disabling OneDrive in the end, but you should at least check that things like OneDrive or any virus checker is not trying to access ANY of the folders that your projects and/or audio files are in.
Mark McLeod Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/21 03:00:01
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poetnprophet
Update:. I thought I had it figured out. I disabled all plugins on a very small project. Still crashed. I noticed that it seems to happen exclusively when I stop transport. Also seems to happen more with waveform edits: splits, fades, trims etc.
I've been noticing something similar: In a track with intensive edits (splits, amplitude changes, rendered Melodyne, normalization) if I bounce the clips together, everything seems normal - I can save, move tracks, enable buttons, pull down menus, whatever. But as soon as I hit play, CbB freezes. I then have to call up Task Manager, shut down, and open but at least I know to save before hitting play. I suspect this may be project-dependent, because I did a quick check on a newer project doing a bunch of splits and bounces, and there weren't problems. My next step will be saving and then re-opening as a bundle. Everything might be fragmented as hell.
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gswitz
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/21 04:26:52
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I would run latency monitor while running the project that crashes.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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poetnprophet
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/21 18:56:20
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Thanks for the posts but if you go to the OP you will see I have been running latency monitor during crash, happens on big and small projects, with interenet or not, and the specific crash behavior.
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abacab
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Re: Cakewalk crashing often, seems random
2018/07/21 20:26:40
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poetnprophet
I am now using a Motu 828es. It has no drivers.
This is incorrect. https://cdn-data.motu.com...dio+Driver+Read+Me.pdfThe MOTU Pro Audio driver is now available for download
at motu.com/download or motu.com/avb. Rewritten from
the ground up, this new driver provides high-performance
support for Thunderbolt and USB on both Mac and
Windows for MOTU’s latest-generation audio interface
models poetnprophet
Cactus Music
What do you mean it has no drivers? It must.
I'm using it via USB2/3, I'm not quite sure exactly how it works but I didn't have to download or install any drivers.
I think that this is probably a key step that may have been overlooked... Without the MOTU driver installed in the PC, and Cakewalk configured to use it, the system is likely running with a default Windows driver.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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