Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue

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RoostRider
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2018/05/24 08:10:42 (permalink)

Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue

 
<edited for better clarity>
I’ve been using the Allen and Heath QU-32 as my MIDI control surface in my studio for several years (32 fader strips, one super strip for EQ etc), I recently decided to try the latest version of Cakewalk by Bandlab. The platform seems very intuitive to me (being familiar with older versions) and overall it seems quite useable. I haven't put it to the true test yet, in my studio, as I have not gotten past the issue explained below.

On the latest Bandlab edition of Cakewalk, I was able to easily use the “learn” function (right click on parameter you wish to control- remote control- move suface control-Learn-ok) to assign all of the faders and mute/select/PAFL buttons on the Custom Layer of my console to work with the channel strips in Cakewalk. No ACT Controller/Surface neccesay. Using the assignable controls in the ProChannl strip in Cakewalk, I also used this “learn” function to set all of the EQ knobs in the QU-32 Super Strip section for each channel. (i.e.- the LF Gain knob selected on the console controlled the LF Gain for the related track in Cakewalk)… THIS WAS GREAT!! and a function that I have not had before (the EQ for each was adjusted equally by using the console knobs!!!)….
Unfortunately, when I saved this Template in Cakewalk and came back to use it again, the EQ assignments did not seem to have saved…. the faders and buttons on the individual console channels work fine and are still linked properly, but the EQ knobs and HPF don't work from the console at all…. I have tried many options (all of the different controller/surface options, a couple third party ideas, etc) and I have scoured forums. I believe this is a software issue, as I have tried assigning the QU-32 faders, which do save properly as fader controls, to be EQ controls instead... They work just as well, but still dont save...
To be clear, Cakewalk will properly learn the functions in the ProChannel EQ section (channel by channel), but will NOT recall them when the project or template is pulled back up.... if this function is fixed I think it would add a lot of value to busy engineers, like myself, who would like to use a MIDI controller to run those functions *this is a lot more common these days with modern digital consoles having super strips capable of sending unique MIDI for each channel selected.
I’m assuming its an issue with Cakewalk as opposed to the console, because it learns it fine, but then forgets it when I close the session or save it as a template.
 
The QU-32 super strip has 17 rotars and 4 buttons that can be assigned independantly to 32 faders and the QU-32 will mimic the DAW precisely... x 32 thats over 400 controls that can be assigned, but get forgotten as soon as you save...

Thanks in advance for any help.... Let me know if I can be of any more assistance in getting this figured out.... Barring this issue, I am liking it so far.
post edited by RoostRider - 2018/05/25 07:37:08

Mike B
Slippery Wrench Productions
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    azslow3
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/25 10:32:28 (permalink)
    You write that you have already checked everything related, but just in case you have overseen that:
    http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,178.0.html
     
    "Remote control" in Sonar is hit and miss for long time. ProChannel has problems in many aspects (from the beginning and till now), especially with surfaces.
     
    Unlike "Learn", ACT gives you a possibility to have a feedback (with AZ Controller or Mackie) and control more then 32 strips.
     
    Linked preset has no definitions for EQ or any other extra controls from Qu. But that can be added (theoretically, if you are interested, that needs some communication between us since I do not have (and never had) any Qu mixer...).
     

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    #2
    RoostRider
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/25 19:40:49 (permalink)
    Hey, thanks a lot for the response..... I have read that thread and, to be honest, most of it is over my head.... like WAY over my head.... I'm an old school recording engineer and not much of a computer guy, much less MIDI stuff
     
    I will help you in any way I can to figure this out... I have a QU-32 and QU-16 to work with and would love a solution that will work with both.
     
    Will this, hypothetically, work to control the aspects of the EQ in the ProChannel, just as it was before it forgot my settings? (it was nearly flawless interaction... I would choose a channel for the super strip and it would adjust that channels EQ settings on the QU and in Cakewalk)
     
    Would it also allow "force feedback" to the faders on the QU?(i.e.- right now the QU controls cakewalk, but movements on cakewalk do not control the QU.... I would like the same to happen either way)
     
    Thanks a ton for your interest in helping to get this worked out.... what can I do to help?

    Mike B
    Slippery Wrench Productions
    #3
    azslow3
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/26 15:21:55 (permalink)
    The feedback is working, that was the reason for the preset. And you do not need to understand the whole thread, that is the full story of this preset development. You just need to follow installation instructions in the first post (for generic AZ Controller installation there are youtube videos, enabling QU MIDI you already know (since you have used the remote control).
    If that is still too much, we can meet online and make it work in 5-10 minutes (you can not PM me here since you have only 4 posts, but you can register on my forum and PM, I mean we have to agree on time, I am in Germany and so in a different time zone).
     
    For EQ I have to check possibilities, I do not like the idea with 32x18 controls and I hope we can find simpler solution (we just need a possibility to select channels without changing what encoders are sending)

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    #4
    Steev
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/27 19:46:07 (permalink)
    Have you tried saving your  settings in the A&H QU-32 itself as a MIDI map, instead of trying to save them in the DAW?

    Steev on Bandlab.com
     
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    RoostRider
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/30 04:53:20 (permalink)
    Steev, I'm not sure what you mean by that.... I saved the scene that went with the assigning I did and used that same scene.... if that is what you mean....
     
    azslow- I didn't do anything to "enable MIDI" aside from telling my custom layer to be MIDI on each channel instead of something else.... but Cakewalk will accept the MIDI signal generated from the faders on the QU's main layer just as well as the signal from the QU's custom layer.... wiggle the corresponding fader, hit learn, and it learns to be whichever you are curently set to operate (Custom or Standard layer).
     
    I watched your videos and I might be able to figure it out, but I'm certainly not confident.... I understand that this will give force feedback to my controllers, which is great, but can I also assign it all the EQ controls and have it remember them?.... I don't mind doing all the assigning, if you could just show me the method.
     
    So I am clear, these encoders on the EQ strip on the QU send a unique MIDI event for each channel selected, because it will remember each of the 32 channels being selected as being a different track associated to those same knobs.
     
    Probably best we meet up online,..... this is over my head... I have registered on your site and sent you a PM
     
    Thanks

    Mike B
    Slippery Wrench Productions
    #6
    Steev
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/30 22:29:49 (permalink)
    A mix scene just records 'mix' settings and automation. A MIDI map "saves" controller functions for the DAW.
     On my old ancient Allen & Heath button "A1" was a map for faders, pan pots, and automation. Button "A2" mapped pan pots to EQ, button "A3" was  compressor parameters,  "A4" mapped to my Lexicon reverb. All hardware 19" rack mount gear running off an 8x8 MIDIMAN MIDI Sport patchbay.
     Very old A&H desk circa 80's running on a Commodore 64 for automation, but MIDI maps had to be stored in the desk/console itself.
     I would assume a modern digital A&H desk would be almost the same for storing MIDI  maps for DAWs and plugins?
     
    If the A&H doesn't have specific drivers that (you can control and set up) listed in SONAR/CbB'S "Control Surface" dialog box than the DAW won't recognize it and save settings.
     It might as well be a jar of mayonnaise as far as a DAW is concerned. 
     
    Sorry, but where would we be without a sense of humor????????

    Steev on Bandlab.com
     
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    #7
    RoostRider
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    Re: Cakewalk to Allen & Heath QU-32 MIDI mapping memory issue 2018/05/31 03:33:42 (permalink)
    Steev
    A mix scene just records 'mix' settings and automation. A MIDI map "saves" controller functions for the DAW.

    I don't understand this really well... I do know that I have a layer on the QU that can be dedicated to MIDI... I believe it sends the same unique signal for each function without the need for "mapping".... 
     
    but MIDI maps had to be stored in the desk/console itself.
     I would assume a modern digital A&H desk would be almost the same for storing MIDI  maps for DAWs and plugins?

     
    I don't think that is neccesary.... the desk sends unique MIDI for each funtion and seems to maintain that universally, no matter what scene I have pulled up, etc...
     
    If the A&H doesn't have specific drivers that (you can control and set up) listed in SONAR/CbB'S "Control Surface" dialog box than the DAW won't recognize it and save settings.
     It might as well be a jar of mayonnaise as far as a DAW is concerned.

     
    As noted above, it will "learn" all of the functions flawlessly (without feedback to the QU), without any "control surface" even being selected.... it even "remembers" the faders, Mute, solo, and Arm.... it just wont recall the EQ functions after a save (as template or otherwise)
     
    Sorry, but where would we be without a sense of humor????????




     
    I'm with you there

    Mike B
    Slippery Wrench Productions
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