Thank you Susan,mod bod, Tom Roussell and whoever else for explaining how the off topic forum works. All this time i've been comming here i never knew that.

ORIGINAL: Richard Brian

Why not a general discussions forum?

Hehe cool, they could call it Coffeehouse or something.

Nah, nobody would ever want to waste any time there ........

ORIGINAL: three_eyed_otter

Why not a general discussions forum?

BTW this thread only relates to the forum and neither SONAR Producer or SONAR Studio but yet a moderator joins in on the topic. Geesh, this is going to be fun to watch.

have a good one
3Eo

Now that i see what happens to off topic threads i think a general discussion forum is needed. Off topic threads will forever be produced on this Sonar forum for most of us get of topic at some point, this is part of the normal flow of conversation and sharing of interests. To have this restricted in a close and friendly enviroment seems unnatural and can ultimately prevent friendships from growing.Many of the threads thrown into off topic forum may not be on topic with sonar but relate to music in general and is just good positive conversation cut-off. Can growth in warmth, friendliness and love in this enviroment continue with such a restriction?

Is anyone else interested in general discussion forum? Speak now or forever hold your peace (this thread may not be alive to much longer).

Three eyed otter, it is good that a cakewalk staff member has joined us in this off topic thread

Three eyed otter, it is good that a cakewalk staff member has joined us in this off topic thread

I completely agree and I find it most beneficial to the user base. I have seen it happen before where a moderator will jump into a thread and tell everybody to cut the bull or the thread is being wiped (i.e., give a warning). I think this form of moderating is perfectly acceptable. The reaper thread was an embarassment to the forum and was yanked before the moderator could put it back on track. Then the forums were updated and it seemed like the heavy hand was going to follow, although I see that it hasn't. All in all I think open discussions are better for the software and the forums, helping both to grow. The scarey thing about the SONAR forum is that people constantly demand or impose their beliefs on a perfectly civil conversation between other forum members. Eg. The reaper thread and the Input Quantize thread. I'm not saying we should all get along I'm just saying leave those alone that are getting along.
Most forum members use Cakewalk software and I find it hard to believe that when discussing anything music related that it is "off topic" or irrelevant to the growth of Cakewalk software. So, if Cakewalk doesn't want to provide its' user baser w/a general discussions forum then please allow general discussions to take place and moderate them appropriately.
Oh well, I babble.

have a good one
3Eo

And the title of that thread was what?

I hope this one gets moved and locked soon.

I hope this one gets moved and locked soon.

attalus,

I assume bnmoore is just tryin' to flame you and doesn't really care.

have a good one
3Eo

Wouldn't be a bad idea. This forum seems to be conspicuously low on talk about music [that is, non-technique related]. This is a natural place for discussions on aesthetics, theory, strategy, etc. Might provide a healthy balance.

I know this thread may not last long,
so i decided to end it with a poem and a song.
To show cakewalk that general discussion forums give birth to very creative ideas and constructive community collaborations.
I've left part of the 2nd verse of the song blank for someone else to add lines for a group effort in this creation.
Feel free to provide a beat, melody etc to help.
if not i'll do it all myself.


SONG TITLE: OT HEAVEN

VERSE 1:

in the future many will come to see
a healthy community needs a forum where discussion is free.
I know its no cakewalk to moderate,
but please don't 'Rapture' our posts away.

CHORUS: O.T. HEAVEN, is not the place for my post.
O.T. heaven-i was'nt finished, but that was all she wrote.

VERSE 2 (Partly blank for others to write in):

And when the Grim reaper comes, my joy is gone.
?
?
?
R.I.P to so many good threads

CHORUS: O.T. HEAVEN, is not the place for my post.
O.T. heaven-i was'nt finished, but that was all she wrote.

And when the Grim reaper comes, my joy is gone
And when the Grim reaper comes, my joy is gone
And when the Grim reaper comes, my joy is gone

THE END!


P.S. Can we get a forum upgrade with our Sonar 6 upgrade? Anyone else want a general discussion forum? It would eliminate much of the off topic and senseless posts that come to the Sonar forum. The biggest problem with general discussion forums is removing negative people, for they just come back under a different name, but heres some suggestions to counter that.

1. Those who sign up for general discussion forum needs a product registered.
2.They need to sign up with their real name and valid email address, credit card check for verification.
3.Their computer ip address is recorded so if their account is deleted and they try to sign back up they'll be denied once their address is seen.

others feel free to add to this list. I had to put cakewalk and rapture in the song because it only seemed appropriate .

I was really sad to see what happened to the Coffee House, but having witnessed what happened there, I don't blame Cakewalk for not having it any more. We had a great group, and a few people ruined it for everyone. I actually stayed away for a long time, because a lot of it was so ugly, that it just upset me.

Kudos to Jeff Noel for starting the Other Place. http://www.smokedsalmonband.com/forum/

ORIGINAL: yep

This is a true story.

Once upon a time, there WAS an OT Heaven. It was called the coffeehouse. It started out like a virtual paradise, but like many utopian efforts, this manmade heaven sadly became a hell on earth, full of trolls and flames, strife and conflict, religious and political threads that festered and ruptured for hundreds of pages and dozens of days. Many suffered and became caught up in its fervor and fever, including longtime posters, expert users, and neophyte trolls with no business talking about computer audio.

Many came to these forums daily not to contribute, but just to flame and bait their "enemies." Their conflicts spilled out into the "real" forums, and virtual blood feuds infected and hijacked otherwise reasonable and topical discussions. People were exiled, either forcibly or voluntarily, and the once paradisial coffeehouse was renamed the Outhouse as its stink began to overwhelm the whole forum. Finally it was stricken down, wiped from the face of the information superhighway. Many longtime "virtual friendships" were lost in its wake. Private spinoff forums and other places were created where some of the best and brightest defected to discuss beer and music history and the state of the world along with audio software.

It's better now. Less colorful, certainly. There is less sense of community, less vitality, to be sure. The place is a little less full-blooded, but it's better, nonetheless. More informative, more helpful, less clique-ish, better. And what's more, there have been a lot of good forums lost completely to OT hell-- the old tascam forum, and the recpit were both, in their day, the best places of their kind. They are now no more, brought down by out-of-control flame wars and ranting bomb-throwers and the like.

I think cakewalk tried the OT forum idea, and rightly concluded that it wouldn't work around here. There are plenty of places on the web to discuss anything you like.

Cheers.

very well put--thanks for saving me the time to write a long post--today is busy. I think we are managing to still get a few "non topic" threads in--if they are in someway related to making music whether in the studio or live. I guess if we want to discuss girls, football, and vacations then we need to look elsewhere. Jeff Noel started up a new place--the posts are welcome over there I'm sure. Last time I visited there wasn't much musically going on though--it was basically like visiting the old coffee house--nice people and nice forum though.

ORIGINAL: attalus

ORIGINAL: gnie

Wouldn't be a bad idea. This forum seems to be conspicuously low on talk about music [that is, non-technique related]. This is a natural place for discussions on aesthetics, theory, strategy, etc. Might provide a healthy balance.

You hit the nail on the head, aesthetics,theory,strategy etc there is much in the music spectrum to be discussed that may strenghthen us all as musicians and as a community. I created the song above to provide cakewalk with an example of what can come from open discussion forums. I also have a few tricks up the sleeve with 2 other different songs/raps i hope others will join in on, but if they don't then they can sit back and watch the show!

P.S. Here's a link to a thread that was sent to OT forum where others wanted a general discusion forum as well, unfortunately cakewalk sent the thread to OTF prematurely- http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=822608

have threads that were about the above ideas--theory, strategy, etc. which were pertaining to music been cast out in the Lake of OT?

ORIGINAL: attalus
, aesthetics,theory,strategy etc there is much in the music spectrum to be discussed that may strenghthen us all as musicians and as a community.

"Gear" and "Techniques" right here on CW should be able to satisfy these needs.

Certainly, there are other places to go. A lot of us here are comfortable with each other, if for no other reason than we work in the same virtual environment.

The art/science integration has always been with us. The Cakewalk site serves as a base, like a mega-studio's lobby in some theoretical metropolis. Forum talk leans toward the technical because we are dealing with cutting edge stuff that doesn't play very well into our creative intuition.

Being an audio engineer and/or producer is a full time learning experience. As is music composition. The same is true for playing an instrument or singing. We are easily consumed by the education and discipline these various categories demand of us.
But Descartes was wrong. There is no separation. The mind and body function as one [sorry to play the philosophy card:].

Since the technical side can be so overwhelming, it's easy for art to suffer. All you need do is look around at what modern culture is producing. Now, the prime consideration for being a pop star is simply popularity. We vote them into position. Take cutie number 69, a fast-food diet of lyrical prattle, tune the vocals, sexy video...
At every level art bends over backwards to appease commerce. That flows over into our music-making. We get endless talk of how to deliver product that fits society's attention span and shallow listening experience. I'm not criticizing these insights, just citing their nature.
Music has always suffered from the physical requirements of its production. The behavior of a vast number of musicians is fairly comparable to that of professional athletes. Indulgent, arrogant, greedy. They've got physical skills; they get adoration. Expression via musical means is no easy feat, so all can be forgiven. But the preoccupation with technique and the need to please has rendered 'accessible' music of late as probably the most conservative of all art forms.

The beacon of hope provided by self-sufficient virtual studios is the ability to create art for art's sake. We are at the threshold of breaking new ground. An integration of creation and production that was simply unimaginable in the past. We need the full spectrum of what music is to be represented here. For the sake of ourselves and the children for whom these tools will be second nature. For the sake of humanity [I know how ridiculous that may sound, but you all know what I mean]. This world needs responsible art.

We tend to come here because it signifies common ground, but let's not forget the mind and spirit it exists to support.

I think it behooves Cakewalk to foster such breadth and depth, whether in a specific forum or amongst the current ones. Just as the Project5 people have realized, this is a community, a movement taking shape.

Michael,
ha...I think I just did.
No moral.
I'm not so concerned about there being an addition, but it might help keep things tidy.

We've seen posts in the last few days about making classical scores, and how to develop bass lines.
This kind of talk is as Cakewalk-related as 'Gear', 'Songs', and 'Techniques'. Most of it is applicable to recording in general.

While the process can certainly be inseparable from the creative act itself, everything we do is in service to the music.

hey there. So, I guess my question is--very clearly stated this time, "what gives "us" the impression that Cakewalk is against these types of discussions about the creative process? I mean, this thread might end up OT because the whole discussion is not about music but about creating a new forum, coffee house, etc. But generally, isn't a discussion that is solely built around "creating a bass line" or making scores kosher in the moderators eyes?

I think you're probably right, and I hope so. I'm just chiming in since attalus followed up on one of my comments. But as the thread goes on, I wonder about posts like '50 albums that changed the face of music', which was canned. Not the best conversation, granted, as it degenerated a bit too far into fan-bias at times. But it could have been worthwhile if we'd gotten more into the article's intent at noting how these recordings altered society's relationship to music.
I can understand Cakewalk's reluctance to open an additional forum section, especially given the problems with the Coffee House, but I think it's worth considering. The bottom line is being music related. I agree entirely with you:

if we want to discuss girls, football, and vacations

, this is not the place.