Calling BFD 3 users, particularily the ones using E-drums

Hi software forum!
 
 
Wanting to always have the best of the best in realistic sounding drumplers (and getting tired of waiting for Superior 3), I bought BFD3 @ full price this winter, expecting it to instantly be my goto for drums. This hasn't happened as of yet!
 
Whenever I want a realistic drum track, I always record my Roland TD-4K V-drums (I'm sort of a drummer).
 
Playing through Superior or Addictive Drums, I don't really need to make any tweaks to the midi map (They all include TD-4 maps) in order to make the track sound as I intended.
 
But with BFD3, all bets are off! I find the default velocity scaling weird and much too linear (an acoustic snare drum does not have a linear volume response). And when I've spent a lot of time tweaking the map to the point where I'm mostly happy, I try switching kits and then the new kit doesn't respond correctly. It's like they recorded the different kits with totally different philosophies! The Tama Tempesta snare is the worst example, Machine Gun City at lower velocities!! The different preset kits vary wildly in volume as well!
 
I haven't heard a lot of people complaining about these inconsistencies, so it's possible I'm doing it wrong!
 
I am a big fan of Addictive. Recording a track and then spending time trying different presets is fun when they kits all respond predictably. But I do like the interface and the depth of BFD3, and the sounds themselves are exquisite, so I'd like to be able to get some real use out of it!
 
E-drummers using BFD3: How to you start a session? Do you built the kit and the keymap from scratch, or do you use the preset kits as a starting point?
 
Any tips appreciated!!
 
Sven
 
-- Edited since I was wrong about which snare was the machine gun.

SvenArne - I've been having the opposite experience as you.  I have a Roland TD-12 as my input source.  Addictive Drums 2 was very problematic for me, including recording the timing right.  I was very frustrated with Addictive Drums, which is why I investigated BFD3 in the first place.
 
BFD3 has been plug and play for me.  It sounds real, and records even the hihat correctly.  It has been a great experience.
 
Have you chosen the key map for your set?

Karyn
The volume change of the samples in any drum prog should be linear across the range of velocity, you then apply a velocity response to taste which could vary from preset to preset or be global.  This alone would account for the difference between (say) SD and BFD if SD is applying the velocity response globally and BFD changes it for each preset.
 
Personally I always set the response to linear in BFD and adjust the velocity curve in the midi trigger (Alesis USBIO trigger)

I didn't actually mean the keymap velocity settings, but rather the recorded velocities themselves. If you load a kit preset like the Blues Kit 1 and change out just the snare to the Mapleworks, it suddenly becomes a big challenge to play ghost notes with my left hand since the latter is completely linear. The Mapleworks recordings in particular seem very incompatible with the other kits.

noynekker
Hey Sven . . . I always start with one acoustic kit preset, and drag and drop individual sample drums if needed.
 
The real power in BFD3 is the Groove Palette, the way you can build a song, and create variations, edit the fills, right inside BFD3 (it also drinks none of your beer) . . . and it syncs perfectly inside Sonar. At some point after an idea is developed enough I usually drag the BFD3 song onto a track in Sonar to take it to the next level.
 
BFD makes its own drum map in Sonar, no editing of that map has ever been required by me.
Easily edited in PRV, or Staff View (once you set the layout)
 
It's true, the velocities act differently than some other drum packages, but they have followed a concept of trying to make it respond like a studio mic'd kit would, with all the many microphone interplays, and crossfeeds. As a result, you have total control over every kit piece, the room, and a built in drum mixer, with effects, but the velocities don't always act in a linear fashion because of this. You say you think the samples respond much too linear, I haven't found that to be an issue. I do agree that the different kits are recorded inconsistently . . . that's why I always start with just one acoustic kit, and replace pieces as needed for taste. You just need to find your favourite all round kit for your style, and go from there.
 
I find BFD3 shines more as an Acoustic drum kit package, than is does for Electronic sounding kits, for that I might try NI Battery or AD2.
 
BFD3 does take a longer time to figure out, because it's deep with features, unlike some other drum sample software where you're up and running right away.

Thanks for your reply!
 
I do like the control options, but I would like the whole package to be more plug and play out of the box, since it's easy to lose perspective after I've spent alot of time making key map tweaks! When I load the default kit from Superior 2, or a "clean" kit from AD2 I've never been 'surprised' by the stick response like I am with BFD3. And I've played a lot of mic'd up acoustic kits!
 
Which acoustic kit do you use as your default startup? Do you load the "preset" or the "kit"?
 
Sven

dcumpian
Oh, and a new BFD3 user (me) asks: How many presets are there supposed to be in a new install?
 
I've found that the presets aren't getting added by default when I add an expansion. I have to go find them and manually add them. I think BFD3 kind of expects you to have had (have?) BFD2 first...
 
Regards,
Dan

I finally did a full (system or something like that) rescan to find all my ad packs.

SvenArne
Hi software forum!
Whenever I want a realistic drum track, I always record my Roland TD-4K V-drums (I'm sort of a drummer).

 
Are you saying you don't have a BFD3 keymap for the Roland TD-4K?
 
I have one in my keymap folder.
 
Also, if you haven't already you should post your questions on the BFD3 forum too and there's also the Edrumming with BFD forum but traffic is light on there so you may have to wait, but there are quite a few edrummers on the BFD3 forum.
 
Steve

SvenArne

noynekker
Hey Sven . . . I always start with one acoustic kit preset, and drag and drop individual sample drums if needed.
 
The real power in BFD3 is the Groove Palette, the way you can build a song, and create variations, edit the fills, right inside BFD3 (it also drinks none of your beer) . . . and it syncs perfectly inside Sonar. At some point after an idea is developed enough I usually drag the BFD3 song onto a track in Sonar to take it to the next level.
 
BFD makes its own drum map in Sonar, no editing of that map has ever been required by me.
Easily edited in PRV, or Staff View (once you set the layout)
 
It's true, the velocities act differently than some other drum packages, but they have followed a concept of trying to make it respond like a studio mic'd kit would, with all the many microphone interplays, and crossfeeds. As a result, you have total control over every kit piece, the room, and a built in drum mixer, with effects, but the velocities don't always act in a linear fashion because of this. You say you think the samples respond much too linear, I haven't found that to be an issue. I do agree that the different kits are recorded inconsistently . . . that's why I always start with just one acoustic kit, and replace pieces as needed for taste. You just need to find your favourite all round kit for your style, and go from there.
 
I find BFD3 shines more as an Acoustic drum kit package, than is does for Electronic sounding kits, for that I might try NI Battery or AD2.
 
BFD3 does take a longer time to figure out, because it's deep with features, unlike some other drum sample software where you're up and running right away.

Thanks for your reply!
 
I do like the control options, but I would like the whole package to be more plug and play out of the box, since it's easy to lose perspective after I've spent alot of time making key map tweaks! When I load the default kit from Superior 2, or a "clean" kit from AD2 I've never been 'surprised' by the stick response like I am with BFD3. And I've played a lot of mic'd up acoustic kits!
 
Which acoustic kit do you use as your default startup? Do you load the "preset" or the "kit"?
 
Sven

Sven, whenever I insert it as a soft synth, I have BFD3 set to always load my go to pre-set "BFD3 Pop 110bpm JM"
The mixer part of this pre-set works well for me also.
It's always the best starting point for the music I do, a crisp natural sounding pop kit.
Mostly, if needed, I drag in different toms or hi-hats to get what I need.