Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues?

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konradh
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2013/02/06 13:45:45 (permalink)

Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues?

I have had ongoing problems with X1b-X1d.  The Sweetwater tech wants to try replacing the V-Studio 700 I/O (interface) with a MOTU as a test.  His theory is that bad code in the interface could be causing issues.
 
I did not consider that likely; however, in Jim's thread below which documents X2 issues, he notes that he is using a Roland interface.
 
The verdict: X2a is not good. Unstable and buggy as all heck
 
Here are examples of my issues.  I'd like y'all's thoughts on whether or not they could be related to the interface.
 
Just a few examples:
• Cut, Copy, Paste stop working and require a PC reboot.
• Upon open, a project that was OK before has messed up Ins/Outs (e.g., MIDISPORT C redirected to Fantom, VS700 5-6 redirected to VS700 1-2, etc.).
• Unexplained crashes that are often, but not always, caused by opening the Staff view.
• Audio engine stops working when another virtual instrument (soft synth) is added.  For example, everything is fine with 7 soft synths but all audio stops when an 8th is added.  The number varies. Note that I have 12GB of memory, run in 64-bit, and task manager shows less than 5GB in use.
• Crashes caused by opening a second project for cutting and pasting data.  Sometimes the audio engine stopes; sometimes Sonar crashes completely.

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
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    Splat
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/06 14:23:19 (permalink)
    So have you updated your drivers and firmware, and run windows update? That's your first step.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    Bub
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/06 14:39:56 (permalink)

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/06 14:45:28 (permalink)
    Well konradh I don't think the VS700R is a problem. I used it with Sonar 8.5 without a hitch and also with other apps such as Studio One also without a hitch so if there are any issues it may be that they only involve X1 or X2. I was running a 32 bit system on XP at the time as well.

    Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
     
    Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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    Splat
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/06 14:51:20 (permalink)
    Sorry a driver may work well with an earlier piece of software but not very well with later software or different software. Its a common misconception that just because X works then it must be Y.  I suggest following my advice first before making assumptions. Cheers.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #5
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/06 16:12:13 (permalink)
    Questions for the original poster konradh:

    1.  I see you running Windows 7, but what flavor of it are you running?  (Home Premium, Pro, Ultimate)

    2.  What maintenance level is your Windows currently running at? (System Information will tell you that)

    3.  Was your installation of Windows 7 an upgrade or a clean install?

    4.  Have you uninstalled and re-installed any versions of X1 in all of your trials and tribulations?  If so, please elaborate - particularly on removal of any registry keys and application data and such.

    I do not know enough about our reported issues or about your system to take any stab at what is causing your reported issues.

    Thanks, looking forward to your responses, 

    Bob Bone



    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #6
    konradh
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 00:10:29 (permalink)
    Interesting.  There seems to be a difference of opinion about the effect of Windows versioning on Sonar.  in answer to the questions:

    Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1
    The PC was built with Windows 7 at Sweetwater
    Sweetwater recebtky upgraded me to X1 d.  I don't know the details of the procedure

    At one point the entire system was shipped back to Sweeetwater.  They wiped Windows, Sonar, and all my software and reinstalled.  This is also my second I/O unit since Sweetwater has been extremely gracious about replacing and rebuilding everything to eliminate problems.

    I am not sure which drivers and firmware we are talking about, but if you guys truly think that could be a problem, I would ask Sweetwater to do it remote so they will know the status.

    I was mainly interested in whether anyone thought the type of problems described could be caused by the interface.  I don't want to blow off Sweetwater's suggestion since they are standing behind the system, but installing a new interface is not a trivial proposition since I am using a bundled V-Studio solution (software, I/O, control surface).

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
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    Splat
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 04:59:52 (permalink)
    Yes it could be the interface and post 2 could resolve it.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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    kday
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 06:11:02 (permalink)
    So, when you replace the 700r I/O with the MOTU as a "test" does that mean you pay for the MOTU during the test?
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 09:02:09 (permalink)

    Quoting you from earlier: "Interesting.  There seems to be a difference of opinion about the effect of Windows versioning on Sonar"

    I expressed no opinion on it - sometimes folks do not apply proper OS maintenance, and sometimes that causes problems.  And for future - X2a requires a certain level of maintenance, as they wrote some aspects of it to rely on particular system routines.

    In addition, I was asking about uninstalls of X1, because there are manual things that you must do to remove all traces of prior installs.

    Is it possible you are plugged into a USB 3.0 port - with your audio interface?  The specs for it indicate it is a USB 2.0 device, and some interfaces freak out unpredictably if they are plugged into USB 3.0 ports.

    I also took a look at the drivers page for that interface.  Wow - seems like several drivers need to be installed - which ones do you have installed?

    Bob Bone





    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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    travismc1
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 10:02:20 (permalink)
    Konrad,
     
    I'm not prone to jumping on the BAD EQUIPMENT bandwagon just yet.
     
    Just a few examples:
    • Cut, Copy, Paste stop working and require a PC reboot.
     
    Does this happen often or once in a blue moon... if it happens often.... take the 700 r offline and edit by keyboard and mouse for a minute or two.... however long it usually takes for cut copy and paste to stop working.... work about 5 minutes longer just to be sure... if cut, copy and paste don't give up then it could be a hardware issue or a driver issue rather than Sonar Issue.   If I understand correctly, the Console will work independantly of the audio interface and vice versa.  If using the keyboard, C,C and Paste keep on trucking, PLUG IN THE Console and work with it to see if CC and P quits working...  if it does quit working, take the console off-line and see if AUDIO INTERFACE can run independent of the console and work with CC and P...  the process of elimination may be able to point to which piece is the offending one.
    • Upon open, a project that was OK before has messed up Ins/Outs (e.g., MIDISPORT C redirected to Fantom, VS700 5-6 redirected to VS700 1-2, etc.).
    • Unexplained crashes that are often, but not always, caused by opening the Staff view.
    • Audio engine stops working when another virtual instrument (soft synth) is added.  For example, everything is fine with 7 soft synths but all audio stops when an 8th is added.  The number varies. Note that I have 12GB of memory, run in 64-bit, and task manager shows less than 5GB in use.
    • Crashes caused by opening a second project for cutting and pasting data.  Sometimes the audio engine stopes; sometimes Sonar crashes completely.
     
    This would be another issue I would try removing the console and just using mouse and keyboard to replicate the problem.  Crashes... sheesh ... I've not had one since XP.... it doesn't mean that windows 7 can't have problems, but a clean install is time consuming and tedious. ( I would be more prone to trying to reinstall Cakewalk before redoing Windows...)  Sometimes your registry, over time can get polluted, numbers and files can get truncated.  That would cause crashes and a fresh install of the program can "sometimes" restore the registry settings.

    Dell XPS Studio / Core I-7 920 / 8GB DDR-3/  Windows 7/ 2-1 Tb SATA hd.  SONAR X3b Producer / Axiom49 (2nd Gen)/ Profire 2626 / ProTools 11 

    http://bigtstudio.com/
    #11
    konradh
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    Re:Can A Roland Interface Cause Sonar Issues? 2013/02/07 12:06:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for the thoughts.

    I also failed to mention that even though I far exceed the system requirements, the performance of Hollywood Strings is so bad that I cannot even use it.  Notes drop out constantly, as though it were a synth running out of voices, except that I get this behavior even when only one or two voices are playing.  This happens even with patches that are listed as "lite."

    The other problems get terrible for a while and then don't happen for a while.  Really hard to isolate.

    Re: the MOTU, I think we are talking about a loaner unit but don't know details--just an idea so far.

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
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