soens
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Can I Crash Your Party?
I just joined the elite Crasher's Club!
I was working in PRV moving notes around when all of a sudden the screen goes white and a window pops up saying Sonar Quit Working.
First time I've seen this.
Steve
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Studious
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 11:14:27
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Yeah, the classic "white-out" crash. I've waiting long periods, but it never recovers. Check your Event viewer > Application after the crash to see if it gives any more detail.
The error is usually something like: Apphang. Sonar has stopped communicating with Windows.
Unfortunately this is a generic error, and tech support probably cannot assist, other than telling you to completely uninstall/reinstall Sonar.
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rodreb
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 11:31:48
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Ah yes. I have become all too familiar with the "white-out crash"!
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daveny5
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 11:41:20
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You don't reinstall Sonar just because you've had a white screen. That's ridiculous.
Post your computer specs, soundcard and equipment setup and maybe we can help you find the real problem.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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bapu
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 12:19:59
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Every time I make SONAR crash, it's because I do sumpin' stoopid like trying to insert an FX while the project is playing.
Should I post my computer specs, soundcard and equipment setup?
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 13:53:26
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bapu
Every time I make SONAR crash, it's because I do sumpin' stoopid like trying to insert an FX while the project is playing.
Should I post my computer specs, soundcard and equipment setup?
Why yes, yes you should. And your blood group, social security number, inside leg (in inches and centimetres), as well as your height, weight and approximate moob size as last measured. Then I might deign to lower myself to help you.
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bapu
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 14:01:34
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SteveStrummerUK
bapu
Every time I make SONAR crash, it's because I do sumpin' stoopid like trying to insert an FX while the project is playing.
Should I post my computer specs, soundcard and equipment setup?
Why yes, yes you should.
And your blood group, social security number, inside leg (in inches and centimetres), as well as your height, weight and approximate moob size as last measured.
Then I might deign to lower myself to help you.
BRB
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 14:08:33
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These things happen. They used to happen far more in X1... at least for me. Now I just get weird graphics and editing glitches. Usually when I get whitescreens in X2 I just wait for a few seconds and things go back to normal.
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2:43AM
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 17:31:12
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bapu
Every time I make SONAR crash, it's because I do sumpin' stoopid like trying to insert an FX while the project is playing.
I wouldn't consider that stupid, but perhaps the program does. Wait, we can't (or shouldn't) do that? I guess I gotta clean up my act!
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wizard71
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 17:37:50
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How dare you even attempt to do anything whilst the project is playing. Apart from moving faders. That works well.
http://www.youtube.com/SpaceTimeAceshttps://soundcloud.com/space-time-acesSonar Platinum - Win 8.1 x64 - Haswell 4770k - ASrock Z87 pro3 - 32gb ram - Fractal design R4 case - 3x HDD 1 USB 2.0 external 1x cr M4 ssd for samples - Octa-capture - Sontronics Aria - Sontronics STC-1s - BX8 monitors - ARC 2 system - Kawai CA63 piano - Kawai MP6 Stage piano - Fender custom Telecaster FMT - Yamaha LL6 - Fender P bass
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 17:42:42
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Beepster
These things happen. They used to happen far more in X1... at least for me. Now I just get weird graphics and editing glitches. Usually when I get whitescreens in X2 I just wait for a few seconds and things go back to normal.
Beep, that's interesting. I have never ever had a whitescreen resolve itself. And without fail, it also always takes out the 'link' to my audio drivers when it happens. When I re-open the project, I always get the message about there being 'no audio devices', and I've never been able to reassign the drivers, either in the Driver Settings menu (they don't appear in the dropdown list for either Playback or Recording), or even by unplugging/reattaching my soundcard. Before now, I've even tried switching from ASIO to WDM and running the Wave Profiler to no avail. The only way I can get SONAR running with audio again is to reboot my computer. I'm guessing it must be SONAR-related, because even when this happens, all my other audio programs run perfectly. I'd love to know what to do to prevent the hassle of rebooting.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 17:44:04
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wizard71
How dare you even attempt to do anything whilst the project is playing. Apart from moving faders. That works well.
Now *that's* sarcasm 
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/05 18:30:40
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Hiya, Straummy. Yeah that's sounds pretty annoying. I don't what to tell you aside from that it sounds like Sonar isn't playing nice with your interface (by no means an expert opinion). X1 was pretty much unusable for me until I did some optimization and swapped out my Layla for my Focusrite Scarlett. I was getting constant audio engine stops, dropouts, crackles, whitescreens, crashes, etc if I did anything more than just hit play... and even then it was dicey. My system is a powerhouse and I designed it based on an ADK build so I was pretty surprised. Turned out that the legacy PCI slot was bridged not native so it was choking. The optimization made the Layla usable but I had already bought the Scarlett and I like it better anyway.
The whitescreens I get in X2 are usually when I start up Sonar but they are very brief. I think it might have something to do with how it's retrieving stuff from the HDDs but who knows. Other times it'll whitescreen for a bit when I insert a synth or start a big task like an import, export or bounce but again it's pretty minor and never fully crashes. The few crashes I've gotten in X2 have mostly been related to browser synth patches but it doesn't cause a whitescreen. It's usually silence and/or a really terrible noise then it crashes. I don't have to reboot or even wait that long for Sonar to close. I just open it back up again and I'm good to go. Then there is when the project starts acting weird with graphical glitches or unresponsive parameters or various other bizarre stuff. Once that starts happening consistently I can be pretty sure Sonar is about to crap the bed. Sometimes the project is still usable... other times it's not. That last type of crash and the preceding behavior are the ones that really bother me. Those types of glitches however happen all the time to lesser extent without crashing and are the main reason I've been begging for X2b. They are far too common and it makes working extremely difficult even for basic stuff.
Sadly... I'm starting to lose hope for a B patch.
For your problems though, and I'm sure you've already done this but if not, I'd say give Cake a call and ask them to help you troubleshoot and optimize your system. If you are using a legacy PCI card or a firewire unit there could be a problem with the slots or chipset or Sonar just plain doesn't like it so ask them about it or ask the interface manufacturer about Sonar. Sometimes too the latest drivers aren't always the best drivers. Google around and see if there are any complaints about your current driver. It's all a crapshoot though considering all the variables involved. I just had a case of beginner's luck with my system I guess. Hope you get it sorted. Cheers.
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2:43AM
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 08:31:54
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Grem
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 08:52:08
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I have white screen recoveries also. And when sonar does crash, it never " breaks my link" to my audio card. And I have an old mAudio 24/96.
But when I do get an "Sonar. Has stopped working" error, I always restart just to have a clean slate again. And this doesn't happen often.
Grem
Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
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2:43AM
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:05:24
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Beepster
Sadly... I'm starting to lose hope for a B patch.
I have not lost hope. Yes, it is taking quite some time since X2a, but think about how many errors they must consider fixing, and how long it must take to troubleshoot countless lines of code, modules, dll's, exe's, etc. I don't work for Cakewalk, but I can understand that it may take time if they want it right. (And I am hoping they share the same belief as me!) X2b hopefully will come soon, but who knows if it will cure all of our problems; there are so many out there, all with different aspects.
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:11:02
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Well unless it comes out this month or they're putting X3 on a 2 year cycle I don't know, man. September is coming pretty fast.
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2:43AM
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:13:37
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Beepster
Well unless it comes out this month or they're putting X3 on a 2 year cycle I don't know, man. September is coming pretty fast.
I hear ya. Well, I've certainly tried to keep them busy with all of my submitted Feature Requests and Error Reports! [fingers crossed...]
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daveny5
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:19:09
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Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:30:01
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I think I've seen others complain about Ctrl + S causing problems. IIRC a few people mentioned they just started using the global File menu to save. That's what I've always done and I've never had a problem. Is it right? Certainly not but it's better than crashing... especially when you are at a point in your project where you would manually save.
And I've never used auto save. I save constantly and create new versions every time I finish a task. My project folders get huge but if something goes wrong I lose very little work. Maybe an hour or so tops. I just get the feeling autosave is the type of thing that ends up saving the corrupted parts as well and I don't get a lot of crashes anyway. Just projects that slowly become unusable. If I see that starting to happening I just go back to an earlier version and delete the one that was going wonky.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:31:07
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Grem
And when sonar does crash, it never " breaks my link" to my audio card.
Hi Grem, and apologies for not being able to describe exactly what happens in better and more accurate terms. It doesn't happen that often, but here's the usual sequence of events, my soundcard is a Line 6 TonePort UX2 (USB) running the very latest ASIO drivers: - Whiteout occurs, usually when inserting a VST or moving a clip while the transport is running
- I have to close the program, and I get the message "SONAR has stopped working..." and an AppHang error (I'll take some screenshots next time it happens so I'll have all the info). Usually I can close SONAR normally, but occasionally I have to kill it in the Task Manager.
- When I reopen SONAR, I get the message about "There are no audio devices available" (or similar)
- I open up Preferences to reassign my Toneport and it's not there as an option - that's what I meant by 'breaking the link'. As I've mentioned, there seems to be nothing I can do to get SONAR to recognise it again, short of a reboot.
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:41:44
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Do you increase your buffers at all after you are done tracking, Steve? That was another thing that helped me immensely when I'd have problems with EXACTLY the type of stuff you are talking about. I don't know why editing or inserting VSTs/changing parameter values would affect the interface but I guess it does. Maybe the the Toneport is getting overloaded and it just says "Eff this. I'm outta here!".
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lawp
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:47:09
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Power-cycle the toneport instead of rebooting perhaps?
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2:43AM
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:51:25
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daveny5
How do you know Sonar crashed your project? It could have been a Windows problem. Good thing you had autosave on so you didn't lose much, if anything. 
Event Viewer reports SONARPDR.exe app crashed but ntdll.dll was the faulty module. So Windows module took it out I guess. Beepster
I think I've seen others complain about Ctrl + S causing problems. IIRC a few people mentioned they just started using the global File menu to save. That's what I've always done and I've never had a problem. Is it right? Certainly not but it's better than crashing... especially when you are at a point in your project where you would manually save.
And I've never used auto save. I save constantly and create new versions every time I finish a task. My project folders get huge but if something goes wrong I lose very little work. Maybe an hour or so tops. I just get the feeling autosave is the type of thing that ends up saving the corrupted parts as well and I don't get a lot of crashes anyway. Just projects that slowly become unusable. If I see that starting to happening I just go back to an earlier version and delete the one that was going wonky.
No autosave for me yet, but I am going to enable it to see if I like it. For me, I am a OCD-style hitter of CTRL+S so many times while working (habit), it's probably no wonder it crashed!
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:52:05
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And I hate to say it but moving clips or inserting synths while the project is playing isn't really a great idea. Unless it's imperative somehow you should probably avoid doing that. Adding a VST is like launching a new program so it's gonna cause a resource spike. The editing thing... well I don't why it does that but I've learned that trying to move clips during playback is asking for a freezeup... but it is less likely if the buffers are increased.
Maybe add the Performance Module to your Control Bar and do some tests to see if you are getting crazy spikes when you do those things. Try with low buffers then increased buffers.
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:53:07
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Studious
Yeah, the classic "white-out" crash. I've waiting long periods, but it never recovers. Check your Event viewer > Application after the crash to see if it gives any more detail. The error is usually something like: Apphang. Sonar has stopped communicating with Windows. Unfortunately this is a generic error, and tech support probably cannot assist, other than telling you to completely uninstall/reinstall Sonar.
I wouldn't have bothered putting this together if that was how we handled such issues: http://cakewalk.com/Suppo.../2007013262#CreateDumpWe should encourage people to work with tech support, not act like tech support can't help. That mentality doesn't really help customers work nor Cakewalk create better products. Soens, if you can capture a .dmp file and get it over to us we can take a look and see if there are any indicators of what might be hanging SONAR. I will admit these issues are a lot trickier to troubleshoot... but I don't personally tell people to just uninstall/reinstall like that. BTW, when your interface drivers disappear like that because the program didn't shut down properly, one way of recovering them is disabling/re-enabling them from the device manager. It's still a pain but can save you from having to completely reboot.
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 09:53:33
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lawp
Power-cycle the toneport instead of rebooting perhaps?
Yeah, that's a good idea.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 10:04:00
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SteveStrummerUK
Grem
And when sonar does crash, it never " breaks my link" to my audio card.
Hi Grem, and apologies for not being able to describe exactly what happens in better and more accurate terms.
It doesn't happen that often, but here's the usual sequence of events, my soundcard is a Line 6 TonePort UX2 (USB) running the very latest ASIO drivers:
- Whiteout occurs, usually when inserting a VST or moving a clip while the transport is running
- I have to close the program, and I get the message "SONAR has stopped working..." and an AppHang error (I'll take some screenshots next time it happens so I'll have all the info). Usually I can close SONAR normally, but occasionally I have to kill it in the Task Manager.
- When I reopen SONAR, I get the message about "There are no audio devices available" (or similar)
- I open up Preferences to reassign my Toneport and it's not there as an option - that's what I meant by 'breaking the link'. As I've mentioned, there seems to be nothing I can do to get SONAR to recognise it again, short of a reboot.
I know exactly what your talking about. you need to close sonar, unplug/re-plug in your device in again. then re-open sonar, go to preferences, look for your soundcard, check it and then assign the master buss to the vs 20 again. and sometimes this doesn't always work the first time around so a second round of sonar/re-boot is needed. it can be a real pain in the bum bum. ive noticed atleast in my situations that if I get a crash and try to force it closed by "end task" in task manager (because we know SONARPDR is still running) then I will lose my device as you have described. but, if I simply wait after the crash without doing anything(don't unplug my device or kill sonarpdr) then about 5-10 minutes later after sonar finally decides to quit I can re-start sonar and all works fine. this can be very time consuming and frustrating. this has been happening to me since x1A at first I thought it may have something to do with the vs-20, but even my focusrite saffire does the same thing. the good news is, I don't crash that often, so I don't need to do this often.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/07/06 10:27:36
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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mmorgan
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 10:18:53
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Regarding the WSOD my experience has been that it is almost always a driver issue but it may be really obscure as to what is causing the driver to have a hissy fit.
About 6 months ago I started getting WSOD regularly and duly noted that I had bumped my sample rate. I'm not 100% sure but after noticing clean projects with audio were fine I saw that my problems seem to be related to VSTi's such as Kontakt. I had to open the offending plugs in stand alone mode and reset the config to the new sample rate. The result was fewer WSOD.
Then I noticed that when I brought in some older track templates I would get WSOD and that got me to some additional plugs that had to be reconfigured. The result was fewer WSOD.
I returned to mostly stable until a few weeks ago when I reconnected a POD X3 Pro back up to my sound card via AES/EBU. I don't use this unit much anymore and not sure why I went to the bother but, you know, I have it so I think it should be connected ;-).
Suddenly I was getting WSOD again (LOL) and a very low level whining sound. I went through everything and was pretty much ready to check into the funny farm when I looked down and saw the X3 unit was on. I turned it off and the whine went away. As did the WSOD.
Just happens that yesterday I went into the config part of the X3 and changed the sample rate and the mode from S/PDIF to AES/EBU and played away to my hearts content with no WSOD.
Don't know if this will help but in every event the problem was with a mismatch in the sample rate in something other than SONAR. I can't honestly say whether the DAWs that I use had the same problem because one was always at 48K and the other I pretty much just use the internal VST. Also I use SONAR so much more than anything else I will always be more exposed to potential problems because I'm using so much external stuff in SONAR.
But generally speaking if you have WSOD in my opinion you have a sound card driver issue.
Regarding the Save versus Ctrl-S I'd be willing to bet that the exact same code executes no matter what you pick, one just seems to be more convenient.
Regards
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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Beepster
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Re: Can I Crash Your Party?
2013/07/06 10:33:07
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Wouldn't the keybinding have to make its way through whatever part of Windows handles the keyboard input before hitting Sonar? The problem might be there. I've had other keybindings behave oddly before or just decide to stop working. It's never led to a freeze or crash though.
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