Helpful ReplyCan Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!!

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Johnbee58
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/01/30 12:54:30 (permalink)
Thanks for all your input.  I was remixing it again this morning and I was concentrating on the instrumentation instead of the vocals when something miraculous happened.  I started liking how the vocal track sounded after I blended it back into the mix!  I no longer heard the "elements" that made it displeasing to me and now I can say I actually like how it sounds.  So it's Psych, I guess.  BTW-I went and did the unthinkable on the new mix.  I panned the piano left and the bass right (about 10:00 & 2:00 respectively).  That generally elicits a heart attack from some of the listeners on the Songs forum, but I like it because you can hear all of the fancy piano and bass licks that hide behind the vocal.  Hard panning the bass is frequently done on Jazz mixes, especially the "classic" ones.  Anyway, I'll spare everyone the horror and keep the first mix up.
Thanks again!
 
John B.
 
 

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#31
Hatstand
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/01/31 17:25:25 (permalink)
Hi John, have you tried using melodyne on your vocals?
I had a play with the dry vox and reducing the pitch modulation sounded better to my ears. Celemony have a number of tutorials in how to do this. Some of the notes needed slight pitch drift towards centre and some of the notes could have been held longer (which can also be corrected in melodyne).
I suspect you recorded the vocals in a single take whereas it may be worth punching in phrases using multiple takes which would give you more breath for sustaining the phrase endings. Food for thought on the next one perhaps?
All the best
Stand for hats
post edited by Hatstand - 2017/01/31 17:48:25

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#32
greg_moreira
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/09 23:51:08 (permalink)
In my opinion, I think its partly psychological.  I think what is happening here is that your vocal is actually very present and up on top of the mix.  Its very clear and despite the verb thats on it, it still has a dry quality that isnt entirely flattering.  Thats not a criticism of you personally.  Its just a normal reaction with some people when they hear themselves so clean and clear and present where its almost like eek...  ease up on that a little.  Even when playing live....  I dont like much of myself in the monitor.  It makes me feel like I have to work harder to hear myself when I am low in the monitor, and I tend to get a better performance.  When I really get a lot of "me" in the monitor it tricks my brain and makes me feel like I have to pull back so that I dont hear myself so presently.
 
Part of it is getting comfortable with hearing yourself so well with good gear.  The gear you have now is why you are getting every nuance, as opposed to a representation of a vocal thats otherwise lacking detail.  Part of it is the mix and master and getting the vocal to sit in there with everything instead of on everything.
 
Read about parallel compression and watch as many youtube videos as you can on the subject.  Its a quick and easy way(once you understand the concept) to really add impact to vocals and thicken them while still retaining dynamics.  Essentially youd duplicate the vocal track(not by singing twice but by copy/paste duplicate).  Apply your normal compression to the main track.  Something subtle like youd normally do.  For the duplicated track(the parallel compression track), you apply a very different approach.  You EQ heavier than you think you need to in order to add an exaggerated boost to any frequencies that have impact or you want to have impact(something in the lows and something in the highs).  Then....you squash the heck out of it with compression ...an unnatural amount to really bring up all the other frequencies/tone in your voice to levels that are pretty well even with the impact portion.  then you slowly blend the two together to taste.  you keep all that dynamic and clarity from the main track....but that parallel compressed track that you blend in fills things out and adds some punch and depth 
 
Beyond that, there are dozens of tricks you can employ to add thickness without killing the dynamics of the vocal.  EQ alone wont do it, because what I think you are expecting to hear actually has more to do with proper compression as a whole and getting the whole mix glued together.
 
Id also read and scour youtube for approaches to compression and limiting for the master bus.  thats what is ultimately going to glue it all together and sit your vocal in the mix instead of making it seem like it sticks out too much for your ears
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/10 03:50:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2017/02/10 14:08:33
One of the biggest problems people have is sitting vocal levels correctly with the music. There is very simple solution for it. Buy yourself a small speaker such as the Avantone. A single one at that. Feed a L+R mix into the speaker. Turn it way down e.g. 60 dB SPL.  At this point you will hear the fact your vocals are way too loud.  Blend them back to the point where they are still clear and audible but sitting in the mix rather in top of it.
 
There you have done it. Turn it up loud again and you will still hear how great the balance sounds.   You can do this with your existing monitors by turning them way down. Try it. But the Avantone type concept works much better.
 
If you find when you do this parts of the vocals drop away then you have not done enough to level them properly. Open the vocal up in an editor program and run a VU meter over them. Adjust the vocals so every phrase peaks 0 dB VU. Then apply light vocal compression over the vocal track and then do the sitting of vocals back into the music as mentioned above.
 
It is the biggest giveaway for really amateur mixes. Vocals way too loud. if you are still having trouble hearing the vocals even when you drop the level down it means there is too much going on in the music. You need to clean it up and start dropping things out. Make space for them

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#34
Johnbee58
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/10 11:13:43 (permalink)
@Greg-Sounds like something I'd like to check out (parallel compression).  Checked out YouTube, but I need to see a video on it where it explains it as if they were talking to somebody who's never done anything like it before (set up, etc).  Can you give links?
 
@Jeff Evans-Thanks for your tip.  Adorable puppy on your avatar!  Might that be a Greyhound?

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#35
sharke
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/13 14:26:44 (permalink)
I just had a listen to the track through my ATH-M50's, which are corrected with Sonarworks, and I actually think the mix sounds fine. The low end sounds just right to me and the vocals sound great - the only problem I noticed was that at around 00:59 when you sing the word "before," there is an overwhelming boominess on the second syllable. And when I listen to the vocals again after noticing this, I think there is a little resonance at this frequency that you might want to try notching out because it's noticeable through the whole vocal although not seriously. Work on notching out that "be-FORE" boominess and it might just make the vocal sound clearer as a whole. 

James
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sharke
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/13 14:31:21 (permalink)
My other piece of advice would be to cut some of the low end out of the vocal reverb? Are you applying a high pass filter to the vocal before it hits the reverb send? If not then try applying a high pass at 500Hz and a low pass at 10kHz. And then maybe cut out some mud from the reverb around 300-400Hz? 
 

James
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#37
batsbrew
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/13 15:16:11 (permalink)
END OF THE ROPE
 
does not sound like a good place to b e.
 

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#38
Johnbee58
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Re: Can Someone PLEASE HELP! I'm At The End Of My ROPE!! 2017/02/13 21:28:55 (permalink)
James-Thanks so much for your suggestions.  Right now I'm trying to wrap my head around parallel compression.
My reverb is a freebie called Glaceverb.  I have many reverb plugins.  That, to my ears, is the best.  The annoyance I was hearing could be noticed whether reverb was applied or not.  Hoping the parallel compression will help (once I learn how to apply it).
 
John B.

Lenovo Core i5 4460 Desktop PC (Windows 8 64 bit), Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Nektar LX61 Keyboard MIDI Controller, Avantone Pro CV-12 tube condenser microphone, JBL LSR308 8" active monitor speakers.  Cakewalk by Bandlab, Reason 7,
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 "I will create music the way I want to whether a million people are listening or no one is listening."   Dan Fogelberg, Singer/Songwriter-1951-2007
#39
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