Can anyone offer me some advice to get my Roland TR-8 in sync with Sonar X3???

Hi Michael.
 
Having read your post, the first thing that strikes me is that you're right, the latency round-trip time does seem quite high as I've just checked mine and it's 13.2 secs which some would say is still a bit high but I don't hear any latency problems and neither does anyone else so I'm not worried.
 
There is one thing you'll find and that is a lot of DAW users nowadays use predominately VSTs so what you're asking will be fairly alien to them as they don't have the problem of interfacing hardware with the software and when I first started using Sonar, I found myself out on a limb with this.
 
However, being a huge Roland fan having had and still have loads of their gear and I've got my beady eye on a TR-8 myself, I'd be interested in finding out what's going on here so I'll try my best.
 
The way I interface Sonar with the outside world is by using a couple of Edirol/Roland 8x8 and 5x5 MIDI to USB interfaces and what I would say is firstly, look at the drivers of the Focusrite and the TR-8, ensuring they're up-to-date.  I can't emphasize this enough as while it may seem like a minor point, I once fell foul of exactly this as I refused to believe a driver could cause timing issues - it was an M-Audio interface!
 
Are you aware that Roland have released a newer firmware for the TR-8 as it resolves several issues and have you applied the update?
 
Have you also tried interfacing the TR-8 directly with your computer using USB as this is an option with the TR-8 (I think I read that in the manual)?  That may solve the latency issue.
 
I think firstly you need to identify whether you've actually a MIDI latency or audio latency issue.  The one area I can't help exactly is X3 because I'm using X2 but they should be near identical.
 
To do that, I'd suggest resetting any values you've altered and then following the Cakewalk knowledgebase article, adjust one thing at the time to see what makes a difference otherwise you'll go round in circles.
 
Have you also tried just syncing the TR-8 via the Scarlet, setting Sonar as the master clock and the TR-8 as slave and seeing what that does?  I always run my drum machines like this and never have any problems.
 
Also, what happens if you follow the above and monitor the direct output of the TR-8, even with a pair of headphones as that should rule out an audio latency issue.
 
I've actually made a number of assumptions here as how are you routing the audio of the TR-8, back via the Scarlet?
 
Also, how are you using the TR-8?  Are you just sending MIDI Sync and using the TR-8 natively (as a proper rhythm machine or just as a sound source as that's another option open to you as this is what I do now for simplicity as Sonar has a nice step-sequencer built-in to each track, quite TR-ish actually) as it has certainly come along way from the version you were using.
 
You should also be aware that until X2, Roland owned Cakewalk and as a result, they're very familiar with X2 and I've found their product support guys, some of the most responsive and helpful technical team in the industry so it's always worth bouncing this back to them.
 
Assuming on my part is probably a bad idea but perhaps if you detail the audio and MIDI routing, that'll help others to make more pertinent suggestions.

Thanks for your advice.
Just a few things to add.  As far as the drivers for the Scarlett interface and tr-8, they're both up to date.  Also, I've tried using a midi cable into the tr-8 instead of using the USB to sync it and that doesn't seem to make any difference.
 
Also, as far as using USB to transfer the audio from the tr-8 to the DAW, I don't do that as I just use the Scarlett as the audio interface.  I've read articles on the internet about using ASIO4ALL so you can use multiple audio interfaces, but I've never tried that.  I just figured that using the proper focusrite driver would give the best performance.
 
I should also add that I don't really notice any latency when using my other hardware, but there again, they are all synths like the system 1.  No drum machines.  And as for how I use the tr-8, normally with the DAW triggering the tr-8's internal sequencer, but there again, when I have sequenced midi notes from the DAW, that seems to have noticeable latency as well.  I was actually thinking that using Sonar X3, my best option for syncing the tr-8 might be to send midi notes and have a time offset for the midi track, but I haven't tried that yet, so perhaps someone could tell me how exactly to do that.
 
The strange thing about the tr-8 is that you can find quite a lot of posts online from people who own the tr-8 who are all experiencing midi sync issues, although some people have no issues.  Incidentally, I see that Roland have added a sync box, the SBX-1 to their Aira range.  Personally I would buy it if I knew it would eradicate the midi sync issues with the tr-8 but at £300, it would be like paying £700 just to get 808/909 sounds.  I just wonder if Roland added the SBX-1 to the aira range because of issues.  I don't really know enough about midi and clock to know whether a) I really need it and b) whether it will solve the problem.

A few questions if I may? I don't know the TR-8 but I have several synths all of which sync to X3 without problems.

Sending MIDI clock/start/stop is done via the project page in preferences. Are those preferences set correctly to send clock via the MIDI port the TR-8 is attached to?

Is the TR-8 correctly set to receive clock?

I doubt the Focusrite is at fault here, at least not as far as MICI sync is concerned. MIDI clock has nothing to do with ASIO, and if the TR-8 is receiving its MIDI via its own USB then other than acting as somewhere to receive the TR-8's audio output Focusrite won't be involved at all. It is possible that the TR-8 is sync'd but the audio playback is getting delayed for some reason.

Taking one thing at a time, if the TR-8 can output MIDI as well as receive it, try setting up a MIDI track to record the MIDI from the TR-8. Program in a nice, simple four kick drums a bar pattern then record that MIDI. Does Sonar place the MIDI correctly when examined in the piano roll view? Then mute that MIDI track, add an audio track, and replay the sequence on the TR-8, this time recording only the audio sent by the TR-8. Does the audio line up with the earlier recording of the MIDI track?

Is the drift away from the metronome a steady, regular interval or does it vary? It might be worth mentioning that Sonar's metronome isn't always as correct as it could be.

Finally, and I apologise for going on a bit, it's not unknown for a hardware synth not to sync properly. The Waldorf Blofeld, for example, has gone through all kinds of sync issues and firmware upgrades as a result.

Ps. As for the audio latency, what latency does Sonar say you have if you load a fresh project containing one audio track and just a master bus, no plugins at all?

I have found that I have to have count-in disabled for my TR-8 or TB-3 to sync via midi.  With count-in disabled it works like a charm.

Thanks to all of you for your help. 
I'll get on with trying out some of your suggestions and get back to you later.

I know this is a very late reply, but I just have to say that all of you software guys and your midi sync issues just crack me up.  I too run the tr8, along with a ton of other gear, ALL SYNCED quite nicely (triple drum machines etc.) without EVER having a midi sync problem going into Sonar Artist. The reason?  I keep the midi time clock HARDWARE based - You guys forget that whenever you allow a DAW to control sync- which is from a SOFTWARE standpoint, you are BEGGING for glitch problems.  I use (2) Studio Captures with (9) HARDWARE synths ALL hooked up via USB to an Intel I7 PC and actually play the instruments. The time you guys spend knocking your heads around with DAW issues and your VST's and the like could be better spent learning Hardware and simply some traditional musicianship rather than being just great sound engineers (as most of you guys are).  With all of the various sources for software getting crammed into DAW's from several major competitors....bottom line is:  Just ain't there yet folks, no matter how much RAM and computing power ya have.

Except for say a Yamaha EX5.........(2nd post)

Bristol_Jonesey
From 2 years ago 

A ha!

BaymondRell

Bristol_Jonesey
From 2 years ago 

ahh  sort of made note of that.......you guys sound like you have the Gearslutz attitudes......whatever.  

Thanks 

Ok well  - Maybe I was taking a bit of a swipe I admit but more towards the focus these days on what I see is a shift towards spending too much time and effort on software itself and it's related technical aspects.  Finding really great sounding music these days that is also good music is getting harder and harder, and I believe it is because of this focus.  With the same time and effort spent dealing with all of that....folks could probably fix a lot of timing issues with just learning to play the dang thing in time and/or use external sync with hardware whenever possible......heaven forbid.

I stumbled in here while helping someone in the PX5S forum with a CURRENT Duo Capture sync problem.....problems still there bud.

I don't think there's any inherent problem between the TR-8 and SONAR, and I doubt the issue was related to MIDI sync/latency. It looks to me like the OP just had too much ASIO latency with his interface - 22ms round-trip - pure and simple. You need to be under 10ms for decent feel with input monitoring, and preferably under 6ms if you're also echoing MIDI through the DAW.