Can the step sequencer skip steps?

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Dan_E10
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2014/10/07 10:46:20 (permalink)

Can the step sequencer skip steps?

Is it possible in Sonar X2's step sequencer view to skip steps?  I'm not looking to just turn a note on/off, but have it actually skip to the next step, kind of like you can do with some of the analog step sequencers that have a switch for each step to be on, normal, or skip.  From what I can see, this is not possible as the beats and steps per beat settings fix the length of the sequence but hopefully I'm just missing something.
Dan
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    KyRo
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/07 16:16:35 (permalink)
    Do you mean like creating a one-off odd time signature in a beat? I don't have Sonar in front of me right now, but if I understand what you mean correctly, I believe you can achieve what you're after by creating a new SS clip for just the particular beat in question, then adjust the number of steps to fit your needs (i.e. subtract a step for a "skipped step"). After that, resume your normal pattern with another SS clip right after the one you just created, and the result should be seamless. A little tedious if you have to do it often, but it gets the job done.
     
    Is this what you were trying to achieve, Dan?
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    Dan_E10
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/07 17:27:35 (permalink)
    Hi,
    Thanks for the response.  It touches on what I'm trying to achieve but not exactly.  I'm wondering if it can be done in the step sequencer itself without patching together different clips.  For example, if one had a 4 step pattern playing away, and then make it skip the second or third step resulting in a 3 step sequence.  From what I can see, one would need to reduce the number of beats from 4 to 3 and then change the pitches of the steps to simulate skipping a step in the middle of the sequence.
    Dan
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    KyRo
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/07 20:59:06 (permalink)
    Dan,
     
    Is there a similar example on YouTube or elsewhere that you can share, to give a better idea of just what you're going for? I follow you all the way up until you refer to changing pitches.
     
    But generally speaking, it seems to me that patching together multiple clips may be the only way (using the step sequencer at least, as it's a pretty uniform tool within each clip). Either that, or you might be able to do it with just one big single-beat (as in SS beat) clip that contains the total number of steps (musical beats) in the whole measure (e.g. 15), then construct the whole measure, including the skipped step part. That will give you one full clip, complete with the skip, that you can duplicate and repeat over and over, if that's what you need. You may or may not need to play around with your tempo setting using this method though, to get it to play at the desired speed.
     
    Let me know if we're making any progress toward your goal.
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    Anderton
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/07 23:21:53 (permalink)
    I don't think you can skip a step in the way you describe. The step sequencer is designed specifically to step through notes sequentially and although you can use it in real time, it's not really intended for an improvisational scenario where you can arbitrarily skip steps as you describe. 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    lawp
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 08:07:10 (permalink)

    sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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    js516
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 08:41:56 (permalink)
    You can't skip beat in the step sequencer, but you can split the step sequenced clip into the cells in a column in the matrix view and trigger them appropriately with a seperate midi track.

    Joe Sera
     
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    Dan_E10
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 13:04:01 (permalink)
    Hi all,
    Thanks for the replies.
     
    Lawp: Yes, I had seen the clockwork sequencer and that is what I'm thinking of.  I didn't try it since they didn't have a demo and I was a little worried about how well Sonar would handle a VST that outputs midi as opposed to audio.  Doesn't Sonar have some issues with that?
     
    Craig: Right, that was my intended use as a real time generator of midi data rather than to generate clips that are then pieced together.  I've been looking at using the Matrix view to do this.  I'd still have to create multiple clips ahead of time, but at least I could switch between different patterns and pattern lengths on the fly and do it mid clip if desired.
     
    dimelives1: I don't think I've seen any youtube videos that illustrate this well, but some of the Berlin(ish) music by Redshift and Node has sequenced lines that sound like they use the technique I'm thinking of.
    thanks,
    Dan
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    scook
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 13:10:16 (permalink)
    Dan_E10
    I was a little worried about how well Sonar would handle a VST that outputs midi as opposed to audio.  Doesn't Sonar have some issues with that?
     

    Lots of work done in this area with X3. It was a problem prior to X3.
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    lawp
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 14:03:10 (permalink)
    clockwork demo http://music.service-1.de/clockworkdemo.zip lower down on the product page

    sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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    Dan_E10
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 14:27:46 (permalink)
    lawp
    clockwork demo http://music.service-1.de/clockworkdemo.zip lower down on the product page




    I missed that, thank you!
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    Anderton
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 15:24:15 (permalink)
    Dan_E10
    Craig: Right, that was my intended use as a real time generator of midi data rather than to generate clips that are then pieced together.  I've been looking at using the Matrix view to do this.  I'd still have to create multiple clips ahead of time, but at least I could switch between different patterns and pattern lengths on the fly and do it mid clip if desired.



    I was going to suggest the Matrix View, but it doesn't do what you want to do with the step sequencer. However, it is a very flexible way of working with clips and yes, you can do all kinds of crazy start/stop/sync things. The Matrix View is IMHO underappreciated in Sonar and is more versatile than it might appear at first.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #12
    tlw
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/08 20:53:14 (permalink)
    My personal answer to this problem was to go the hardware sequencer way. There's nothing quite like setting up a sequence then flicking the switches and tweaking other parameters in real time. The sequencer becomes an instrument in its own right.

    As a dedicated sequencer (as contrasted to a synth with a sequencer built in) I use a Doepfer Dark Time, which outputs MIDI as well as cv so can drive software synths as well as hardware and the MIDI output can be recorded into Sonar like any other controller.

    Which is useful because not only do you have a permanent copy of the sequence you also get to see which notes it was playing which makes building arrangements round it easier.

    Sequences can also be played back pitched via MIDI notes, so if you play e.g. a C then the sequence will pitch to that, a G and it pitches to that and so on, so it can follow the harmonic progression of the rest of the music.

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    #13
    Greeny
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/09 07:56:08 (permalink)
    Anderton
     
    I was going to suggest the Matrix View, but it doesn't do what you want to do with the step sequencer. However, it is a very flexible way of working with clips and yes, you can do all kinds of crazy start/stop/sync things. The Matrix View is IMHO underappreciated in Sonar and is more versatile than it might appear at first.




    Gotta agree with Craig here, its easy to see it as an EDM related thing (and it is great for that!) but I use it all the time jamming around on guitar, and some of the stuff you come up with is stuff you would never normally play jsut sitting at the guitar jamming.
    #14
    Dan_E10
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    Re: Can the step sequencer skip steps? 2014/10/09 11:20:11 (permalink)
    tlw
    My personal answer to this problem was to go the hardware sequencer way. There's nothing quite like setting up a sequence then flicking the switches and tweaking other parameters in real time. The sequencer becomes an instrument in its own right.

    As a dedicated sequencer (as contrasted to a synth with a sequencer built in) I use a Doepfer Dark Time, which outputs MIDI as well as cv so can drive software synths as well as hardware and the MIDI output can be recorded into Sonar like any other controller.


    I had looked at the Dark Time as well.  I'm working with a dotcom modular so there are a bunch of analog sequencer options for that too.  I was hoping to use Sonar's step sequencer instead since I already have it, but as I was beginning to understand and as Craig stated, Sonar's step sequencer isn't really aimed at real time use.  It seems like it's more useful for quickly coming up with patterns.  I'm going to play around with Matrix view to string together a few different sequencer clips to simulate real time sequencer tweaking.
     
    I'm also going to look at modding Reaper's megababy step sequencer.  That sequencer is a bit cruder than Sonar's in that it just generates midi notes when Reaper is playing or recording but that opens up some real time options.  As I understand, it's just a text file so it shouldn't be too tough to add some functionality to it.
    Dan
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