yorolpal
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Can we route a track to more than one bus yet??
Don't know if this is a dumb question...I've been using workarounds for so long I haven't tried in eons...but does Sonar Platinum let you send a track to more than one bus? And if so, how? And if it still doesn't...we'll geeze louise, why the heck not? Thanks.
post edited by yorolpal - 2015/07/03 16:43:06
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John T
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 16:27:35
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I'm wondering if I misunderstand you, because I do this all the time. You can have as many sends to different buses on a track as you like.
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John
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 16:31:32
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Yes it does Ol Pal. John T above has the way to do it. Use sends they are your friend.
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 16:34:31
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No...not a send...that's how I do it now. I mean just the ability to insert more than one bus on a track so it gets sent to two different busses. Like on analog consoles of old. The easiest (read lazy-assed...yet most efficient) way to set up parallel compression, say. Buss 1 is your main drum buss...Buss 2 is your squash the livin bejeezus out of it. Route to both and season to taste in the mix. Also, it's more intuitive...at least to me and a bunch of other old school engineers. Guess not then. Fine and dandy. I'll just keep "sendin" as per usual :-) PS: I changed the title to, hopefully, avoid confusion.
post edited by yorolpal - 2015/07/03 16:43:48
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John T
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 16:44:42
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I'm not sure I can see what the distinction is, in functional terms.
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 16:58:08
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Welp...usually all you really want to send to the compression buss is the kick and/or the snare...perhaps the toms but more often than not you don't want to send the overheads and room and such. Sometimes but not usually. In order to accomplish that with sends you need to set up at least two extra separate busses...one compressed heavily and one not or only lightly compressed and then, at least to me, route them in a rather unintuitive fashion. If I could simply route the tracks I chose (i.e. snare and kick) in my track view to two separate busses (and not three) I could just control everything with one extra buss and one extra fader and generally not have to worry about sending or returning. Like I said, it's probably just my lazy way of working. And I've never been able to do it with Sonar anyway so...no biggie.
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John
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 17:43:02
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John T
I'm not sure I can see what the distinction is, in functional terms.
Me either.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 17:48:44
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yorolpal
Welp...usually all you really want to send to the compression buss is the kick and/or the snare...perhaps the toms but more often than not you don't want to send the overheads and room and such. Sometimes but not usually. In order to accomplish that with sends you need to set up at least two extra separate busses...one compressed heavily and one not or only lightly compressed and then, at least to me, route them in a rather unintuitive fashion. If I could simply route the tracks I chose (i.e. snare and kick) in my track view to two separate busses (and not three) I could just control everything with one extra buss and one extra fader and generally not have to worry about sending or returning. Like I said, it's probably just my lazy way of working. And I've never been able to do it with Sonar anyway so...no biggie.
I don't know why think you need 3 busses? 2 will do. Route the OUTPUT of ALL of your drum tracks to buss 1 - compress lightly Insert a SEND on kick/snare to buss 2 - smash the crap out of it
post edited by Bristol_Jonesey - 2015/07/03 17:54:56
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Anderton
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 17:48:55
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I think what he wants is an FX bin with parallel routing. I've never seen buses, hardware or software, that could be "inserted" in tracks.
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:02:51
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Yup...that would do it Craig but I don't know why you couldn't route a single tracks output to two different busses. You wouldn't be returning anything to the track. You'd simply be outputting the busses to your master.
post edited by yorolpal - 2015/07/03 18:12:39
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charlyg
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:15:05
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Maybe we're all bozos on this bus.....but I digress.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:23:37
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yorolpal
Yup...that would do it Craig but I don't know why you couldn't route a single tracks output to two different busses. You wouldn't be returning anything to the track. You'd simply be outputting the busses to your master.
I know what you are talking about. The only program I know that does this is REAPER. It allows assignment of as many INPUT/OUTPUTS from/to a TRACK as a user deems necessary, output to any available on your interface(s). Also, REAPER doesn't make a distinction between tracks and busses so setting up parallel processing is easy in one view. If this what you are after, why not make a feature request or get a bunch of folks to do so in order to raise it's priority to the Bakers? Mel
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:26:07
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Yes. That is what I'm after...thanks.
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jih64 
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:44:21
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OldTimerNewComer
I know what you are talking about.
The only program I know that does this is REAPER. It allows assignment of as many
INPUT/OUTPUTS from/to a TRACK as a user deems necessary, output to any available on your interface(s).
Also, REAPER doesn't make a distinction between tracks and busses so
setting up parallel processing is easy in one view.
Mel
+1 REAPER is a very capable bit of gear, with many handy and desirable features, I think a lot of people get hung up on the depth of configure-ability it has, and the look and interface, the latter 2 can be overcome via custom themes, of which there are many, the former, well it's really just a one time set and forget for the most part, all be it quite depthy, and with the custom floating toolbars, life can be made really as you wish it.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 18:49:46
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An easy and quick work-around, if you happen to own REAPER,
would be to use REAPER as a REWIRE Slave.
Route whatever outputs from tracks to appropriate ones in REAPER
through REWIRE, then do your parallel processing THERE.
Route the REAPER output to a Master Bus in SONAR.
SONAR's Audio Engine would still control the final output that way,
so no loss in audio quality, I would expect.
This is what I would do as I prefer SONAR's engine to REAPER's.
Mel
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Jesse G
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 19:05:24
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yorolpal
No...not a send...that's how I do it now. I mean just the ability to insert more than one bus on a track so it gets sent to two different busses. Like on analog consoles of old. The easiest (read lazy-assed...yet most efficient) way to set up parallel compression, say. Buss 1 is your main drum buss...Buss 2 is your squash the livin bejeezus out of it. Route to both and season to taste in the mix. Also, it's more intuitive...at least to me and a bunch of other old school engineers.
Guess not then. Fine and dandy. I'll just keep "sendin" as per usual :-)
PS: I changed the title to, hopefully, avoid confusion.
Cakewalk documents using sends as the ONLY way to perform parallel compression in Sonar and suggest using them. I guess they were aware other DAWS had other ways of performing this. Please read their Parallel Compression Setup Blog for Sonar
Peace,Jesse G.  A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 19:18:28
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Jesse G
yorolpal
No...not a send...that's how I do it now. I mean just the ability to insert more than one bus on a track so it gets sent to two different busses. Like on analog consoles of old. The easiest (read lazy-assed...yet most efficient) way to set up parallel compression, say. Buss 1 is your main drum buss...Buss 2 is your squash the livin bejeezus out of it. Route to both and season to taste in the mix. Also, it's more intuitive...at least to me and a bunch of other old school engineers.
Guess not then. Fine and dandy. I'll just keep "sendin" as per usual :-)
PS: I changed the title to, hopefully, avoid confusion.
Cakewalk documents using sends as the ONLY way to perform parallel compression in Sonar and suggest using them. I guess they were aware other DAWS had other ways of performing this.
Please read their Parallel Compression Setup Blog for Sonar
Jesse G
"in Sonar"
The thing I love most about DAWs, and computers in general, is the many ways different programs can be extended 3rd party. I am quite sure the Bakers were thinking of this when they decided to implement ReWire. I don't think it diminishes EITHER program to be easily used in concert with another. Mel
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Keni
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 19:26:36
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I think I understand what he wants and the methods spoken of should suffice... But if another alternative is desired, how about using the user-created plugin... I think it's called sidechain that allows you to send to another input... This can be placed anywhere in the fx chain to create a split point... Send to the other input and wallup it with the desired comp an have the actual output of each of the two inputs to go to a common drum bus?
post edited by Keni - 2015/07/03 19:33:24
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 19:45:12
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Keni
I think I understand what he wants and the methods spoken of should suffice...
But if another alternative is desired, how about using the user-created plugin... I think it's called sidechain that allows you to send to another input... This can be placed anywhere in the fx chain to create a split point... Send to the other input and wallup it with the desired comp an have the actual output of each of the two inputs to go to a common drum bus?
excellent.
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Jesse G
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 19:49:46
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I totally forgot about the sidechain plugin, very good catch Keni, ... Very good indeed. 
Peace,Jesse G. A fisher of men <>< ==============================Cakewalk and I are going places together!
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Keni
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 20:00:30
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I just checked again... It's called SidechainMixer... I can supply a link to it from my Dropbox, but there may be a newer version and I don't know if the author wants me to distribute it though he did make it free... If you can't find a link for it, let me know... [edit] Try this... http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3164260[end edit]
post edited by Keni - 2015/07/03 20:12:35
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 21:31:10
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Anderton
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 21:58:37
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yorolpal
Yup...that would do it Craig but I don't know why you couldn't route a single tracks output to two different busses. You wouldn't be returning anything to the track. You'd simply be outputting the busses to your master.
Well, now I'm totally confused...a post-fader send is the track output because it is post everything - FX bin, ProChannel, etc. So create two post-fader sends to two different buses. Don't return anything to the track, just dump the bus outputs into the master. In what way is this not what you want to do? Also note that the U and 4K compressors are already set up to do parallel compression internally, thanks to the wet/dry controls. So if you have the ProChannel, you're already covered. If it's just a question of being able to control multiple track sends with a single control, then grouping would take care of that.
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:07:14
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Yes Craig...that is what we want to do...we just want to able to pick or create two (or more) " busses" and NOT sends to route the audio of a track out to. We don't want to be limited to one BUS per track. It might all end up at the same place but it's how you get there that matters. I guess those of us who'd like to see this implementation (ala Reaper) don't really get the push back from those who know how to "make it happen" via a workaround in Sonar. Again...just another way to skin a cat. Which, really, is a horrible expression don't you think?
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Anderton
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:22:28
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Ah, now I see what you're saying. You want to be able to set the track output SELECTOR to more than one bus. Because you kept saying track output I thought you meant the actual output that appears from the track, not the selector that assigns it.
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:23:46
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Keni
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:42:12
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Yes... Horrible expression but well understood.
There are work arounds galore!
I'm sure there are things you do in Soanr that you might find needing work arounds in Reaper...
In the days of analog, not only could we send to multiple busses, but a common thing to have/do was creating mults which could be used anywhere... Inputs, subs, busses, outs...
Yes, you could create feedback loops.... Bad? Sometimes! ;-)
Using sends can sometimes be tedious as you may have written fader automation that you wish to feed the bus. So using s send means replicating the fader automation for the send... And keeping both modified as changes are needed...
Sending to two busses simplifies this...
There are also occasions when it would be nice to send to a second input... Again, yes it can cause problems, but that's a bit part of exploration and discovery...
SilkTone's little plugin can alleviate some of these situations as well as open more doors to ideas...
This is who deserves the thanks here! ;-)
I'm just the messenger.... Please don't shoot me!
Don't get me wrong... Even in analog some boards and some rooms had very different sets of abilities much as today's softwares do... The trick to me has always been to discover things and use the set of tools at hand to create the final goal...
More players? ...bounce machine2machine? ...more tracks?
I'm sure you guys get what I mean...?
Keni
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Anderton
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:43:10
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The other thing that confused me was when you referenced old-school mixing consoles as what you wanted, because that's actually how SONAR works. The difference is that in the hardware mixers, the sends were hard-wired, and there was a fixed number of sends. When you pushed a track's bus button, it was the equivalent of using the send's drop-down menu in SONAR.
If you set up a project template in SONAR with six "hard-wired" sends, you'll see what I mean...the send's drop-down output assignment does the same thing as the bus assign button you used to push on the mixer's track strip.
Meanwhile, the sidechain mixer approach Keni mentioned will do what you want as well...seems a lot simpler than rewiring.
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Keni
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:49:29
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Anderton
Ah, now I see what you're saying. You want to be able to set the track output SELECTOR to more than one bus. Because you kept saying track output I thought you meant the actual output that appears from the track, not the selector that assigns it.
They really are synonymous... The actual audio output of the track is being sent to the selected output... What's being asked for is the ability to route the single output of the track two more than one destination at that point. If a console didn't offer it we all had mults which we fed the output to on a patch bay and it allowed us to then use the mult to send to two different places... Etc...
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yorolpal
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Re: Can we send a track to more than one bus yet??
2015/07/03 22:55:10
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