Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

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HeatherB
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2008/09/12 15:48:46 (permalink)

Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

This may sound like a silly question, but is it OK to have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? I have a synth loop that has a little funk bass in it that you can barely hear, so I wanted to add a bassline on top of it. To me, it sounds fine, but I'm just wondering if it's not a good idea to have two basses going at the same time (I'm wondering if after the song is mixed and mastered if it will sound "muddy"). Like I said, you can barely hear the bass in the synth loop that I have and it sounds fine to my ears, so do you think it's OK? Thanks!
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    mcourter
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 15:55:53 (permalink)
    Heather, sure, why not? Give it a try. The worst that can possibly happen is you don't like the way it sounds, and then you dump it. If you DO like it, you can always tweak the EQ to get rid of the mud, roll off some lows to clean it up some. I'm sure a number of more detailed posts will follow mine. And in fact, you aren't restricted to doubling the existing bass in your loop. You can do a harmony or counterpoint for it. In any event, have fun with it.
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    #2
    mlockett
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 16:21:52 (permalink)
    Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

    No; you will be arrested if the bass task squad finds out. :-)

    Seriously, you can do whatever you want. There was some band awhile back that often had two basses; I can't think off the top of my head who it was though.

    Having said that, I would mute each bass track, one at a time, and ask yourself if he song sounds better or worse without it. I, personally, am often prone to putting to much "stuff" in a mix, "because I can." As a sanity check, I often start muting tracks and asking myself, "is this track necessary to the song." The end result is often dropping a few tracks.
    #3
    bapu
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 16:34:40 (permalink)
    If you are in doubt listen to "The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)" by Chris Squire on Fragile.
    #4
    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 16:37:33 (permalink)
    Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

    YES, Sure you can. Who says you cant??? I do it at times and in this song I'm tracking now has 2 bass's playing together for one awesome sound.
    For example. you can tune one bass down to D and play the low D and then tune it back up and play the regular D. It sounds awesome. That's one example.
    You can do it as long as you understand how to mix it in properly. You need to cut some frequencies out and make sure your not stepping on the kick drum. You need to use complimentary EQ, most definitely
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    aaronk
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 17:04:20 (permalink)
    Ornette Coleman has been gigging with at least two basses for awhile now.

    You're asking the right question -- density in the bass causes more potential problems than density in higher registers. That just means to be aware of that when you compose your piece.

    "It sounds fine to my ears" ALWAYS = OK. This is true even if it doesn't sound fine to other people's ears. Composing means creating music that sounds fine to your own ears. If it turns out that your ears are interesting ones, you'll end up writing a lot of interesting music!
    #6
    tls11823
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 17:14:46 (permalink)
    Two basses can be a problem, but it isn't necessarily a problem. Listen to Lou Reed's Walk On The Wild Side. One bass just kind of fiddling around on the root of the chords, and another having fun with some higher notes. Different timbres and different note ranges so they don't fight with each other. (It sounds to me as though one is an electric bass guitar and the other a double-bass.) The result is a pretty cool vibe.
    #7
    tls11823
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 17:17:15 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bapu

    If you are in doubt listen to "The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)" by Chris Squire on Fragile.


    Well, in my opinion, Chris Squire can do no wrong. I'm not crazy about Yes, but can listen to his bass lines all day long.
    #8
    HeatherB
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 17:40:12 (permalink)
    OK, I feel better now! Thank you all for your comments!
    #9
    Kev999
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 18:19:07 (permalink)
    ...is it OK to have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

    Well, why not. Spinal Tap went a bit further than 2. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXy0hZDIrmY

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    Spaceduck
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 18:27:02 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Kev999

    ...is it OK to have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song?

    Well, why not. Spinal Tap went a bit further than 2. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXy0hZDIrmY


    Oh my gawd!!
    "on the bass..."
    "on the bass..."
    "on the bass..."
    "on the bass vocals..."
    "on the bass drum..."

    Tap = best band ever
    #11
    mattplaysguitar
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/12 21:54:50 (permalink)
    I would say the two most important things to be wary of when doing this would be your EQing of each bass and your actual composition of each bass. EQ obviously needs to be done right so things don't get stepped on. but possibly a good idea would be to write the notes a fair bit away from each other so that two similar bass notes are not playing. Such as a low D and low E playing together, it will sound bad. But if it sounds good, then it is good! Just make sure that your monitors have a good low end response so you can really hear what is going on. If not, go take it to your friends car with the big subwoofer and see how tight the low end sounds. If it sounds good, then it is good!
    #12
    DesertHermit
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/13 16:27:18 (permalink)
    I've seen the Dixie Dregs a few times and they had two bass players.

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    #13
    Fog
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/13 17:05:49 (permalink)
    Kev, this is my fav. spinal tap thing..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akaD9v460yI

    not dissimilar to a certain bakers avatar
    #14
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/13 21:56:57 (permalink)
    yeah...just don't let it get muddied up.

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    BluesMeister
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/14 22:13:23 (permalink)
    I recorded a tune (Jazz Bass Jam) that featured my Jazz bass playing everything other than the drums. By using different PU combinations, different channels on my amp and playing up the neck it's possible to avoid all the bass parts having the same sound.

    Also, John Lennon recorded a track on his Rock And Roll album that features two basses, he says as much towards the end of the song.

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    bapu
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/15 14:14:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tls11823


    ORIGINAL: bapu

    If you are in doubt listen to "The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)" by Chris Squire on Fragile.


    Well, in my opinion, Chris Squire can do no wrong. I'm not crazy about Yes, but can listen to his bass lines all day long.


    +1

    My four favorite bass players (in no particular order)

    Stanley Clarke
    Jack Bruce
    Chris Squire
    Jaco Pastorius

    As far as YES is concerned, I like them. And since their recordings are what allowed me to be introduced to Chris Squire, the kids are allright.
    #17
    mcourter
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/15 15:26:58 (permalink)
    Myself as wel, not a big Yes fan, despite the fact that they are terrific musicians, but I love Squire. And, to boot, he's a very funny guy in an interview

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    rumleymusic
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/15 15:29:18 (permalink)
    yeah...just don't let it get muddied up.


    Bingo, that is the only issue. There is kind of a voice leading rule in classical theory that prohibits the use of 3rd or less below a certain register (C3 I think - C below middle C on piano). That is because the frequencies are so close together it just sounds like mash. It is always good to apply some of these rules in modern music.
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    Jim Roseberry
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/15 18:47:55 (permalink)
    FWIW, Run a high-pass filter on the synth-loop to filter out the bottom end.
    This will keep the two parts from overlapping/clashing.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
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    #20
    bapu
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/15 19:29:57 (permalink)
    And, to boot, he's a very funny guy


    I've heard that. I used to know a "real" engineer back in 1989-1990 who worked with him.
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    rchristiejr
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/18 14:26:30 (permalink)
    Listen to Thunder, by Marcus Miller Victor Wooten and Stanley Clarke.

    Synth bass and string bass sould work well together, EQ with care.

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    aaronk
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/18 16:51:56 (permalink)
    Bingo, that is the only issue. There is kind of a voice leading rule in classical theory that prohibits the use of 3rd or less below a certain register (C3 I think - C below middle C on piano). That is because the frequencies are so close together it just sounds like mash. It is always good to apply some of these rules in modern music.


    But can be a useful effect. Beethoven's piano music, particularly the late sonatas, are full of closely-spaced chords in the bass register.

    In addition to Jim's excellent point, it can also be useful to try the opposite -- a low pass filter. The "mushiness" can sometimes result from too many audible mid-range overtones. The overtone series generates notes separated by seconds and thirds in its higher reaches. The lower the fundamental, the more of those higher overtones will reside in the audible range. Also, with quite a lot of audio gear, the bass fundamental isn't actually produced at all; the brain supplies it from the overtones that actually are played out.

    You can experience this at home by playing closely-spaced chords in the bass register using pure sine tones; the individual notes will sound distinct. As you add overtone content, you'll hear the chords muddy up. In effect, the masses of overtones are producing something that starts to approximate white noise, and to the extent our brains are relying on the overtones to fill in the fundamental that our speakers can't reproduce, our brains are getting confusing information.
    #23
    kwgm
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/19 01:56:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: HeatherB

    This may sound like a silly question, but is it OK to have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? I have a synth loop that has a little funk bass in it that you can barely hear, so I wanted to add a bassline on top of it. To me, it sounds fine, but I'm just wondering if it's not a good idea to have two basses going at the same time (I'm wondering if after the song is mixed and mastered if it will sound "muddy"). Like I said, you can barely hear the bass in the synth loop that I have and it sounds fine to my ears, so do you think it's OK? Thanks!


    No, you cannot, unless one of the basses are played live.

    The musicians union requires one live bass player for every synthetic bassline in a song. Read your rule book!

    --kwgm
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    FletchX
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/21 01:47:11 (permalink)
    I saw Victor Wooten in concert a few years back. At one point there were at least 4 basses playing. The only guitar player; Vic's brother, played his guitar like a bass. It was amazing.

    #25
    kwgm
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    RE: Can you have 2 different basses playing at the same time in a song? 2008/09/21 17:44:07 (permalink)
    Now, that's legal!

    I saw Stanley Clarke do the same kind of set, sometime in the 1970s, but can't recall where or when (if you were really there, you can't remember and all that).

    Stan's band had all 4 members playing bass at one time -- percussion, backing rhythm, and Stan playing lead way up high -- it sounded quite good. He also did a bass/bass duet using the bow with an upright electric thing.





    --kwgm
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