Can you help an idiot hook up his 1st Mic Pre?

   Merry Christmas my forum friends!  Santa was good to me this year!  I got a new Condensor mic, some new Sennheiser headphones, and my very 1st outboard preamp (among other things)...  I am dying to hook it up and check it out, then it hit me... How?   
  I would assume that going from the balanced xlr outputs of the pre to the xlr inputs on my m-audio fastrack pro is a little redundant right?  Is is best to get Xlr/Trs cables and go into the inserts on the m-audio?  IF this is the case does that allow me to record 4 inputs simultaneously (2 from the new pre & 2 on the m-audio)?
I am going from my new Art TPS II (not an expensive pre- but it's a start!)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/art-tps-ii-2-channel-variable-impedance-tube-preamp
Into my M-audio
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FastTrackPro/

Thanks Mike,  Cool deal.  I should have checked and asked for the appropriate cabling to go with it.  I'll have to go get them tomorrow!

Sorry, but I do not agree. If you look at the Art Pre-amp back picture (2nd picture), you will see balanced either 1/4" input (usually line input for a synth or if it has a switch in front - a guitar - different impedances - XLR = mic, 1/4" higher impedance say for like a synth - line, or if a switch in front for guitar type input - very high impedance - line input) all balanced but running an unbalanced synth into it, it is made for so no problem there. All synth outputs are unbalanced that I know of, so running an unbalanced synth output to a balanced input presents no problem, can even use a 1/4" balanced cord, like I do. It works.

Now, the second picture at your link magified shows the back of the unit, and there the output is either a balanced low impedance output XLR - usually mic say to a low impedance input to another unit - usually the XLR or mic type, and a unbalanced ouput (1/4" plug like synth or guitar type) to go to the other unit.

A balanced cord will not pick up interference as much with the cord length that a unbalanced line may pick up. Using 5ft. cables or so, probably won't notice it, but if running longer cord lengths, then problems like electromagnetic interference can present a problem. That is why balanced cord are used, because of EMF interference that goes everywhere like TV signals, and whatever.

Therefore, if your unit you are leaving (the ART Preamp) can be plugged into a unit that has a low impedance input the lines will be a XLR balanced output to a balanced XLR input and therefore the possibility of noise creeping into the signal because of the cords will be minimized if longer distances. If using the unbalanced 1/4" output from the ART Preamp then the shortest possible cord should be used (2 feet- 3feet whatever). A XLR low impedance output of the ART Preamp could use a much longer cord length to another XLR low impedance input of the other unit (20 feet or so even way longer -50 feet).

Low impedance balanced connections (long, very long cord lengths) but low impedance to another low impedance input - typically around 600 ohms or even way lower - 50 ohms.

Line inputs or line outputs - typically around 20k ohms or even lower (my synth puts out around 2000 ohms or 2k ohms - too much for a low impedance input but then that is what the 1/4" plugs are made for and the medium impedance input and outputs of the 1/4" type plugs. Shorter line lengths for an unbalanced cord, where longer cords can be used with balanced outputs and inputs.

Guitar inputs and outputs way higher - around I forget, but a lot like 500k impedance - way higher. No volume if used in a line input probably, not unless you have another box (like DI box) made to accept the higher impedance for a guitar while outputting a lower impedance into a line input of another unit.

Now they have all these COSM or digital units that you can use as to not plug into a guitar amp and mic it to record (whether they work all that great or not - and it does not seem so, but more variety in trying many things like amp simulations out and such) that retain plugging the guitar directly into an input (from a line output of the unit to a line input of a unit to boost the gain needed for a guitar or bass guitar in the first place.)

Using the wrong outputs and inputs may or may not harm the unit, but other things like changed tones and distortion and lack of volume will make it not usable anyway.

The ART Preamp has a low balanced output so plug it into a low balanced input - all low impedance - fine.

The line input (1/4" plug) usually for a synth is also balanced (also for other electronic boxes of that kind of medium impedance) to another balanced input is the best, but in the case of the ART Preamp - it is unbalanced so factors like picking up extrareneaous noise can creep into the signal (TV air waves, such stuff or EMI interference) using longer cord lengths.

And a guitar plugged in directly will not work without the unit have a guitar input which is very high impedance.

And again this explanation was way too entirely long!

The best way to do any hookups is to look at the manual and see what the unit outputs - low, medium impedance and hook up to the other unit via a similar input.

If you can use inserts to record would depend on your inteface I guess. On my Presonus for example which has sends and returns the returns override inputs 1 and 2, so plugging into the returns and selecting 1/2 as the input would indeed work.

#1 = microphone type cord (without the microphone  just the cord).
#2 = 1/4" cords balanced or unbalanced.
#3 = 1/4" unbalanced cord (guitar cord).

Also, Inputs may be variable to a certain degree to accommodate different microphones or line inputs or a switch like the Fast Track for a guitar.

Outputs from units are fixed and not variable.

^ An insert is like a hardware plugin. When you insert a plugin in your DAW you can select 'insert' and the signal will go out of the send and you can put it through a hardware compressor, say, and back into the return. Sometimes they come all on one stereo cable 'insert jack'

Use XLRs for Mics to Pres. If you can keep it XLR all the way to the interface, do it. If you can't, go XLR to TRS or TRS to TRS. XLRs are quieter than TRSs when it comes to Mics. Inserts are for effects and sidechain processors.

ChuckC


Craig, your saying I should run the Xlr out from the pre amp, right into the xlr input (preamps) of the M audio?  I bought a couple xlr/trs cables today.  I went from the Xlr outs to inputing the TRS in the back imputs of the m audio (which did unfortunately over ride the fron inputs so it's still only 2 channels of input).
    
   I tried it out a few hours ago.  What a nice difference!  Being able to adjust the output down to allow me to push the gain up and start to drive the tube section adds a nice warmth and fullness to it.  Then (with this pre amp) you can play around with the impedence on the mic to change the character of the mic itself.  Pretty cool.  Again, I am sure there a better preamps out there but this is a cool starting point and a welcomed improvement in my incoming signal quality (or least the ability to alter it for better or worse!).

That will work also Chuck. For Mics I don't like to go TRS if avoidable. Yes you can go to the front Mic inputs on the M-Audio. You will have two Pres. The one you've got the Mic into, and the one in the M-Audio. If you don't like the ones in the interface don't use them. Or, use them as a slight bump once your mic is quiet. A mic pre can be used as a "filter-control" on a mic, a stabilizer so to speak. Adding tube coloration and such. Many times you can get a better level for the mic before sending it to the interface and then bump up the signal at the interface with its pre. I like to use a tube pre with built in compression, de-essing, EQ, and a gate. Just to tame the mic. ( None of them are perfect) But you have a workable setup there. Try it the other also, it may be more flexible.