Can you tell me

Have a look here Michael;

http://electronics.howstu...com/internet-radio.htm

I remember SMB had a spot on Mixposure's radio show a few years back, it was a lot of fun. We pre-recorded a 15 minute piece with a few tracks and us talking about how they came about.

There was a chat-room you could log into and talk to other listeners in real-time, which was quite cool.

I don't know if things have improved since then, but the quality was pretty bad, very compressed and 'pumping'.

I remember now..you were 'Soundtrapper' there, right?

Maybe we can get Korg and Propellerheads to sponsor the show?


I wonder how much bapsi will charge for access to the CHB catalog?






Spacey, 
 One specific challenge to internet radio is keeping track of who is listening. There is statutory play rate of apprx. $0.01 per listener per stream that is the royalty pay out for the song writer or owner of the asset.
 So, if you have 1000 listeners listening to a 30 minute show with 10 songs the royalty fees are:

1000 x 10 x $0.01 = $100.00


So, that's easy... you'll want to get at least $100.00 in sponsorship support... but that's before you cover the cost of distributing the payments and all that paper work... so now you probably want at $500.00 in sponsorship.

Now we can figure out how to pay for rental of a streaming server and the basic costs of producing a show.

Stuff like that.

Of course, one very real problem is that there is no actual way to know how many streams you really should be paying for... so you'll never know if your expenditures are efficient or sufficient.


It doesn't take too long to begin to understand why internet radio is just a bigger playlist in rotation rather than an endless succession of newness. Administration costs are lower when you just repeat the same stuff over and over again and avoid adding new stuff that needs new admin and book keeping support.

It doesn't take to long to begin to understand why cable TV looks the way it does. There is a direct relationship between the effort that can be devoted to developing content, the size of the viewing audience, and the levels of sponsorship that can be utilized.





I do think it would be cool to see the incredible variety of Cakewalk produced music that is out there.

Right this moment, it seems like one practical option is for someone to produce play lists of Soundcloud uploads that are all thematically oriented to Cakewalk productions.

It could even include interviews and such if stuff like that was uploaded to Soundcloud.




I'm gonna start pitching Ed K for an exclusive interview!!!


all the best,
mike

I appreciate the info Mike. Thank you.

You welcome spacey.

I did make a mistake about the podcasts.

I forgot to mention that we have a statutory right to stream music content as long as we pay the fees. That's a recent law and it is the underlying premise behind the operation of websites such as Pandora, Soundcloud, Grooveshark etc.

The record companies can't stop them... they can only prosecute for non or insufficient payments.


With podcast downloads you have no right to use anyone's content with out express permission... so the rate of approx $0.10 goes to the composer or holder of the publishing asset and there is still a fee that needs to be negotiated for the actual use of the recording. The $0.99 downloadable mp3s split 10c for the songwriter and the rest for the owner of the recording.

You can see it can get complicated fast.



I imagine a podcast could include a snippets of a song and claim fair use.



Anyways, I like the Soundcloud playlist idea.

Let Soundcloud steal the money owed for the streams and simply provide playlists of uploaded content that is in effect a radio show. Develop some interviews or behinds the scenes content to upload to Soundcloud so as to incorporate that into "shows". 

You could even upload segues and bumps and just weave them into the list... and in effect produce a complete show on the down low.




Heck, I'm gonna try to sell Ed K an advert for his software dev business.




all the best,
mike

Mike it has sure gone beyond anything I have time or desire for.

Just got curious about it.

I thought it would be a fun thing for one that had the time....and got curious
about the workings/cost/ implications. Surely not a venture for me.

If you need help or suggestions to apply the perspective, just ask. It is a very simple
way of looking at modes if one doesn't over complicate it.
Save the technical interval changes and Greek terminology to apply to it later...much easier
IMO that way. One is playing and hearing first then understanding what exactly happened later. Of course there will be some that disagree but you will be playing and won't care what they think LOL.

I think it would be cool for Cakewalk themselves to have a Radio station of just music posted in the Songs forum.

All originals of course, I'm sure covers would be a problem with Copyrights and all that.

Hi,
 
I've done a show called "The Space" for 3 years about 11 years ago.
 
It went like this, and my experience with it ... long and detailed ... you have been warned! Slight editorials along the way!
 
Your Account with an ISP for internet service, or a business account (more below)
Machine at the ISP (Server)
Real Audio Server Software -- 25 feeds (100 was too expensive and the other was prohibitive)
 
Home:
- Regular Machine
- Use the "other side" of the Real Audio Software to create the file that is going to be streamed from the ISP -- it encodes in Real Audio formats
- Copy to a CD
- Upload to the Machine
- Update your webpage so folks know what they are hearing
 
Voila
 
That machine, never crashed and was running "Open BSD", which RA had available, but was not selling very well, and they gave me a price break for testing. Only had 25 feeds used up all together once, and the show averaged over 25 minutes per listener, which is extremely rare in Internet listening by anyone ... there was a survey done by Gallup that folks at the Coffee House can not listen past 3.45678643b2a2p54u minutes!
 
The shows I did, with the exception of a couple of them, were almost exclusive to bands and their albums ... so Can had 2 hours, Family/Streetwalkers/Chappo had 2 hours, Hawkwind had 2 hours, Man/Help Yourself/Neutrons, had 3 hours (AND approved and applauded by Martin Ace!), Roxy Music/Manzanera/Ferry had 2 hours (AND Bryan approved!), AshRaTempel had 2 hours, Gong had 2 hours, PFM 2 hours, Banco 2 hours, Le Orme 2 hours, Djam Karet had 2 hours, Duncan Brown 1 hour, Renaissance 1 hour, Peter Hammill had 2 hours, Van der Graff Generator had 2 hours, Ozric Tentacles had 2 hours (AND Ozric approved!) ... as an example.
 
Other oddballs played included Egberto Gismonti, Terje Rypdal, David Darling, Carlos Nakai, Shandra, Shankar (the violin player), Carmen, Echnaton's Return (soory can not remember the names), and various other things.
 
It was about ... that artist's space ... and I did not give a damn about anything else ... and no one, artists included, ever complained.
 
All told I had over 400 hours of shows when the show was taken down by the guy that ripped off our ISP and then some ... he was complaining about me "stealing his wavelength" when the show had already run for 2 years and there was no record of it draining anything as the stream was average quality!
 
IMPORTANT:
 
Most of the things that involve moneys and charges ... WILL REQUIRE the Copyright payments and such which is about a penny per song, and these rip you off, because if you play one song in an hour, they still want to charge you for 15 songs (permissible by the FCC radio rules). That means (then, not sure how different now) about 15 cents per hour to play anything .... regardless of how much you play!
 
IF THE SHOW IS FREE, which mine was ... the FCC and the law falls apart ... and not a single artist EVER has said anything about "copyrights" when they knew ... RIGHT OFF THE BAT ... that this was a labor of love giving them their due and chance to be heard.
 
IMPORTANT CH. 2:
NEVER, EVER, EVER, FOREVER play the big name artists and bands, in your show ... because these are the folks that are screaming money money money out there and paying for the lawyers to go after you to collect. However, as was the case with the micro-radio thing in California, in general, the FCC took a nasty spill in court that they washed under the carpet to ensure that no one saw it or knew about it. You can not collect moneys when there is none passing through from anyone. I was clear! I paid for the machine and the software ... and that was it!
 
IMPORTANT CH. 3:
Radio, as you and I know it, is almost dead. Sirius/XM could have been the new "FM" thing of 40 years ago, that helped setoff a revolution and a splendoriferous amount of music and brilliant stuff that we still listen to and appreciate ... a lot of it we call "progressive" even, which helped define and generate "prog" later, which was louder and louder and noisier long cuts, that featured some of the ideas that long cuts love to work on, but instead of Keith or Rick soloing, you get guys like Mike ... and so on ... blasting a guitar for 10 minutes to show their virtuosity!
 
FM radio in the early days and its first 5 years was completely reactionary radio to the top ten fast pace format in AM stations ... and as such many of them even took on the "mellow" thing to make fun of them. One of the things that helped was the long cuts and the experimentations ... and you could hear "In a Gadda Da Vida" in its entirety, not just 3 minutes of it ... of the long version of "Light My Fire" instead of the "hit version" that was under 3 minutes! This, has been forgotten and lost and is gone ... and Sirius and XM are nothing but the corporate stations that bought out all the FM stations, to ensure they could play the stuff they have ... and not give time, space, or any care to anyone that does not kiss their corporate a$h-kissing mentality!
 
LIVE RADIO 360:
Streaming group in the Internet. I can not tell what they really have or not have, and trying to talk to them is like talking to a MUTE or a MORON! It looks like you can do it from their own machines (I doubt it) and that costs because it's like you are merely sub-leasing a server in their "isp", or you can have a GOOD machine at home, ON, all the time and that machine streams it all from there ... with one issue here ... you ISP -- Comcast, Charter, Time Warner, Cox, Cablevision, WILL lock you down after a week's service ... WHY? ... you are violating the EULA ... and what you would have to do is UPGRADE to a business account, so you are not going to be watched like a dog! Streaming from home, however, will LIKELY limit the number of streams possible, if your machine does not have the processing power, the memory and the extra hard drive space to create enough "temp" files for 25 streams at the same time, to be able to buffer them properly so that all folks can listen to it ... and how will your machine handle it, if it gets 17000 hits in one hour, and your provider, will be on teh phone with you yet again!
 
Thus, Radio ... is not ready for "home" ... yet ... and all the setups are still designed to protect the corporate structure.
 
I have my shows, and I have not decided how to shop them yet ... I do not want to stream them from home, but my webpage hosting allows a few things, and "unlimited space" ... but that is impossible, specially when you are streaming -- because you need BUFFERING space!
 
LIVE RADIO -- is easier and more possible and not a real issue for an ISP ... you are on from time A to time B ... and there is no "buffering" since what is coming in, is going out right away ... and that is easier ... the real problem is ... you can't do this from home ... you are not an internet provider, and if you were the Copyright Notices apply to you!  The hard part of "live" on the internet? ... defeats the very reason why the internet is so important ... anywhere at anytime you want ... convenience, and ... dang ... I missed the show!
 
There goes your listener ... since you can't stop the world to get him/her!
 
I'm still hoping the Internet becomes more open ended ... the "controls" are getting worse and these are the kind of controls the FCC wants, so they can collect money at the entry point ... and not allow you the free ride!

I have never just blasted my guitar for 10 minutes... if I go that long... I go all the way to the end of the hour.


:-)



The thing about the statutory fee and the law is that no one can stop you from playing the song as long as you pay the fee. They can however sue you anyway and see if you can afford to operate while they are displeased with your existence.


Broadcast radio rates are not related to internet radio rates as they are determined by estimated market share which more or less equates to listener count. Broadcast rates are per market, and internet rates are per listener.

Both technologies have the inability to accurately audit the use so they just sort of pay enough to stay out of trouble with the auditors.

In many markets a micro broadcast station can get a license from the FCC and operate very cheaply under the presumption that no one is actually listening to it.

The thing about playing other parties "original" music is that one must manage the risk of assuming that the party that presents the music actually owns the right to turn over the rights.

For example; A risk manager may determine that it is much cheaper to just pay the 0.01 rate for each listener for each song and minimize the risk into a predictable fixed cost. Investors like strategies that anticipate and minimize rude surprises.

Furthermore, if you attempt to commercially play "original" music under specific owner granted license... ASCAP is going to come shake you down once you hit a certain amount of traffic and they'll have all kinds of cleverly thought up claims about "original" music to make about why you should pay the fee any way. It will cost you money to make that go away.




Having said that, as with any business law protocol... it will be easy to find many examples of operations that were successful without adhering to a convention.






Ramblings.



best regards,
mike

Mosh, 

 " ... but in the end ... it's a dead end ... as may will just say ... he's only listening to himself anyway!"  



process art 



 best regards,
mike
 

+1 

It would be cool to have Cakewalk radio. 

I suggested similar long ago; members (only registered SONAR users) having their own public Cakewalk profile with music, video and comments section. But I guess that might be too much for Cakewalk to handle. 

Sorry to go slightly OT; 

But there is Cakewalk TV?, I would like to see it expand to SONAR users; scheduled for weekends that includes official music video releases along with interviews (technical)! 

I remember talk about Cakewalk TV when it was launched. 

Imagine Bapsi as host and guests appearing regularly for the 'Am' Talkback series; it would change 'everything' and definitely keep the Bakers on the edge of their seats.