Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface??

Author
squarewave_9000
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 15:14:43
  • Status: offline
2015/01/31 15:21:26 (permalink)

Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface??

I was messing about with a friend's Sonar X3, and the first thing I wanted to do was to use the touch screen interface to draw and edit notes on the MIDI piano roll - but it seemed impossible to do.  Drawing and editing notes on the piano roll seems limited to using the mouse and cursor.
 
Can this be true?  To go to all the trouble of creating a "touch screen interface" and then making on-screen editing of notation impossible with the touch screen?  Please tell me I am missing something.  I have searched the forums and the online habdbook, and could fined nothing to tell me this was doable.  I am pretty surprised.  I was actually excited about the prospect of a touch-screen DAW for a minute, there.
 
The PC being used is an ASUS Flip, i5 8Gb RAM, with 10-point touch and capacitive pen ability, running Win 8.1.  The product is Sonar X3 (Producer, I think).
 
Thanks for any help in this matter.
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    SimpleManZ
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 157
    • Joined: 2014/10/21 00:07:34
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/01/31 15:50:33 (permalink)
    squarewave_9000
    I was messing about with a friend's Sonar X3,



    Perhaps your friend can pipe in on her/his Forum Account and also relate this issue.
    #2
    squarewave_9000
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/31 15:14:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/01/31 15:58:29 (permalink)
    Why should he?  I'm the one considering buying it based on this criteria.
    #3
    swamptooth
    Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2229
    • Joined: 2012/04/16 15:44:21
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/01/31 16:22:13 (permalink)
    Did you switch from the smart tool to the draw tool?

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
    Sonar X3E Prod / X2A  / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure Data
    Native-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other plugins
    Home-brewed VSTs 
    Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64)  
    Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs 
    M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
    Member, ASCAP   


    #4
    squarewave_9000
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/31 15:14:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/01/31 16:48:28 (permalink)
    swamptooth
    Did you switch from the smart tool to the draw tool?

    Yes it took me a while of noodling about but I finally noticed those big icons up on the left, and I did try them.  No luck tho.  The only way I could draw was to use the touchpad and mouse cursor. 
    #5
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/02/01 10:02:57 (permalink)
    I have a touch monitor and really enjoy using it where I can.
     
    Sonar depends heavily on the context area of the mouse to determine what the user might be wanting to do, and this works great for the 'smart tool' and other mouse related things.
     
    This is anathema to touch, since Windows touch does not have a hover equivalent. You touch the screen or you don't.
     
    Effectively, this means that the user would have to provide the context to Sonar. Like have a button in the control bar that says, 'entering data in PRV' that is different from 'scrolling PRV'. Right now, if you pinch and slide your finger on the PRV it only scrolls.
     
    Consider the behavior of touch in the flyout EQ. It supports multipoint touch, so if you put four fingers down you can move the four points on the EQ at the same time. Now, if you pinch one of the points, you should be able to adjust the Q for that point, but it's difficult to not have Sonar jump two points when you try to pinch the one point. So basically, I don't use pinch-touch to control Q in the flyout EQ. Instead, I just touch the Q nob and adjust it there. Sliding finger left and right is gross adjustment while up down is fine tuning.
     
    *if anyone can give their touch tips on the flyout-eq I'd be glad to hear them.
     
    So, coming soon is the touch keyboard. You will definitely be able to enter midi data using that bad-boy. I imagine you could use it with the step-record feature too if you can't play close to time. This will be useful for a kind of forward midi entry scenario.
     
    I do think that touch control of Track-View Envelopes, Clip Editing, Speed-Comping, Midi-Data etc, is all coming fast, but is currently effectively disabled. Right now, touch in these areas is basically for scrolling only.
     
    Touch is most useful for me in live performance/practice where I can adjust synths without touching the keyboard or mouse. I reach up while a chord is ringing and tweak as I like. This includes TH2. I can turn on and off pedals using touch... adjust gain... change the current amp.
     
    Mixing in Console view is also way cool with touch.
     
    So, touch is slowly being built into Sonar. They aren't rushing things. There is very little that is made more complicated by touch, and almost all things touch work properly. Some VST plugs have very small buttons and nobs with can be frustrating.
     
    In general, touch is still in the budding stage.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #6
    squarewave_9000
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4
    • Joined: 2015/01/31 15:14:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/02/03 12:04:24 (permalink)
    gswitzI have a touch monitor and really enjoy using it where I can.

     
    Thank you for your considered reply.
     
    I guess what you have said overall, to answer my question, is that No, X3 can not edit MIDI piano roll with the touch screen. And that is really a disappointment.
     
    Frankly I am really surprised at this, and it is not at all what I expected, when I first learned that Cakewalk had made a "touch screen specific" DAW.  Really, I'm still in mild shock about this.
     
    I guess Cakewalk thought they could just throw in a bunch of "pinch and zoom" features and call it a "touch screen optimized interface".  But the funny part is, other DAWs, since they haven't *excluded* certain mouse behaviors by limiting them to "touch screen only", are actually *more* accessible via a Win 8 touch screen interface.
     
    Just as an example, Reaper, which is ostensibly free for private use, and which I have been using on and off for years, is completely accessible via the touch screen interface.  That is to say, anything a mouse does, a touch screen command will do, also.  So yes, I *can* edit piano roll events with my fingers on my touch screen.  Okay, Reaper's piano roll is one of its weakest points, I agree, but the point is, it works.  And, I can move sliders, press buttons, and drag panes around, too.
     
    So what is Sonar offering me now, that other "non-touch optimized" DAWs aren't?  Maybe bigger buttons and larger sliders, and some touch-optimized frames and windows, to be sure.  But as far as actually *using" the DAW via a touch interface, there is clearly no advantage here.
     
    Well, I'm glad I took the time to find out.  I hope no one thinks I'm here to slam Sonar, or be a fanboy for some other DAW, or whatever, I'm not. 
     
    You know it's really too bad, too, because I quite like some of the things Sonar does with MIDI notes, like having the little double-sided arrows when dragging a MIDI roll note, for instance, like this.   <|> 
     
    I believe Sonar could make a much better use of a dedicated touch screen interface, than just taking a bells-and-whitsles approach and pleasing all their smart-phone user customers by letting them pinch and zoom.  Oh well.
     
    EDIT:  Also I failed to mention, I read in the online manual about touch gestures here, and indeed, editing MIDI notes was not one of the features listed.
     
    Edit 2:  Board prohibits URL's, even to their own site?  Odd.  The page I was trying to reference is found here
    Cakewalk // Documentation // Sonar X3 // Multi-touch
     
    post edited by squarewave_9000 - 2015/02/03 12:13:56
    #7
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5694
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Can't draw on MIDI piano roll with touch screen interface?? 2015/02/03 19:15:20 (permalink)
    URLs are prohibited from new users to keep the fan-base safer from bots. This gives the algorithms a little time to determine if you're human before they start letting your links through.
     
    Sonar supports multi-point touch. Not just 1 or 2 points (required for pinching). You can grab ten faders and move them all at the same time. You and a friend can work the faders like you might together at a real board. For that matter, you can turn on effect or plugin on your track while your friend disables something effecting her sound.
     
    When windows need focus, this doesn't work so seamlessly, but if it's all exposed in Sonar, it does work.
     
    What I mean is this...
    If you are sitting on one side of the desk with a TH2 guitar amp sim and the window up, you can adjust settings, right? And if your friend does the same on her side, she has to wait for you to stop fiddling for her turn. But if you map the controls into a FX Chain, you can both turn off Overdrive at the same moment by each touching the screen together and at the same time.
     
    To do this, Sonar enables multiple entry points into the application. 2 New concurrent threads spin up together to catch and handle the separate touch input. Or 10 new threads.
     
    So, while I can boot to Ubuntu Studio and do all kinds of things with my touch screen, it is not Multi-Point Touch Enabled.
     
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Next, there is almost NO clamor for this feature in the traditional user-base. One of the main calls from the user-base was 'go slow! we don't care!' I think more than anything this was driven by the fact that Windows 8 supports multipoint touch and the Cakewalk developers are super talented and super interested in how to take advantage of it.
     
    I'm sure you can agree that touch could make a lot of tasks more efficient than mouse work. For example, with a mouse, only one person can go through a track ans split clips and slip edit. Imagine if 2 could concurrently. Faster at least by a factor of 2 right?
     
    So, there arises a question. Currently, the mark for the split is defined by the now time. In order to have 2 people concurrently splitting tracks in track view, you would have to change this constraint. Remember: Nobody is asking for this.
     
    Worth the risk to irritate all the paying user base by changing this behavior now? Probably not. Let's just make it work first, and in a way that doesn't mess anything up.
     
    Lots of the folks here care MOST about STABILITY. Reliable behavior. I couldn't deal with it if my little cousin came over and drew patterns in the PRV. (Well, maybe it'd be cool.)
     
    What's the point?
    Multipoint Touch is about enabling multiple concurrent entry-points into the code base. It is being implemented conservatively because few are actually depending on it.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #8
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1