Cant get audiosnap to work

Hi there.

I'm a little confused by what you mean. When you say....

but when I view them in the edit window they have the wrong measure/beat settings applied

what do you mean exactly?

Are you then trying to edit the clip map of the clip that has the copied markers? If you need to edit clip maps that is best done before you start any further processing with Audiosnap.

The "Merge and Lock Markers" function is there to copy and lock transients from tracks to all others where the audio transients may also exist.

A typical use would be to "Merge and lock" Kick, Snare, and Drum Overhead tracks together before processing with Audiosnap. The reason is that any Kick and Snare hits probably exist as spill in the overheads and each others tracks. Therefore if you need to move Kick or Snare hit on its track you also want to move that hit in the other tracks to avoid phasing issues.

That's the main reason why you'd use "Merge & Lock". If the clip map is wrong you need to fix that first but I've only ever done that on one track in a project mainly because I'm extracting the tempo from a freely played recording. That tempo is the same across all the tracks and in that case the grid is moved to fit the audio.

If you want to move audio to fit the grid the "Merge and Lock" will do that without editing each individual clip map although you  might want to do one of the tracks initially. The best track to do that on is one with a fairly regular strong beat. A kick is usually ideal and my preferred choice but if you're not working on drums just pick one that best does that.

Any more questions just ask. There's a video on extracting tempo and editing the clip map on my youtube page.


HTH

Yes if you are changing the tempo you need to do all of the clips. It is slightly different to fixing timing problems though. There is another video on my youtube page on how to adjust a projects tempo. That's Here.

That however won't fix timing problems within the tracks only adjust all the tracks to the new tempo.

To fix timing problems you are best to use "Merge and lock". Once you've done that use the "split clips at beat" and then adjust the transients either manually or using Quantize. The reason you split the beats is that you (probably) want the drum hits to move rather than stretch. If you don't split the clips at beats the audio will stretch when the transients are moved.


The "Edit clip map" is best done before any processing with Audiosnap to make sure that the Audiosnap has detected the correct tempo (you can change it if it hasn't) and that the beats (on the grid) line up correctly with the beats in the clip - rather than where Audiosnap thinks they are. If you get the average tempo set correctly in the "Clip Map Editor" then Audiosnap will get most of the beats sorted correctly. As I said earlier you only need do one track.

Unless the tempo has big variances there's not usually too much editing required. Audiosnap is very powerful and I find works well but it isn't the easiest thing in the world to use as it can seem quite complicated at first. I'm usually reluctant to push my video on here but that covers all you could ever need to know about Audiosnap in far greater detail than I can in forum posts. Link in my sig.

Fire away with any more questions and I'll do my best to help. 

Ah.... the power of video. I can see exactly what is going wrong. It's an expectation thing.

You are editing the clip map in the drum track but have mis-understood the process. The beats such as 1:1, 2:1 etc in the clip map have nothing whatsoever to do with the tempo grid of the project. Neither does anything get moved stretched or changed in anyway. The clip map only relates to the internal beats of the clip to make sure that each beat in the clip, lines up with where audiosnap thinks it should be.

Audiosnap works that out by working out the average tempo of the clip. To give it the best chance of doing that correctly you need to set your project tempo to roughly the tempo of the material, slip edit and apply trimming (or bounce) the clips to get rid of any erroneous stuff at the front of the clip and manually line up the first down beat of a clip with a measure line of the tempo grid. It doesn't matter what measure anyone will do. EDIT: Remember to select and move all clips though if working with multiple clips.

Audiosnap is then pretty good at not only getting the clip tempo correct but will also line up most of the beats in the clip with the beat markers in the clip map view. Just remember Clip Map Beat markers initially have NO relationship to the tempo grid whatsoever they are a completely separate entity.

Clip map editing doesn't move or change audio or tempo in anyway. It is just a set up process to get ready for the next stage..............

.........................which is extracting a very accurate tempo map. That's what this video explains.


After you've done that then you use audiosnap on the other tracks. Merge and lock their transients together and then moving a transient in one track either manually, applying the pool or quantizing them will move the same transient in all tracks. 


To summarize.............


Set up for using audio snap by checking rough tempo and editing the clip map. At this stage *nothing* has been changed.
Extract tempo grid (as per video link)
Merge and lock transients in all clips
Adjust transients as required
When happy - bounce to clips.

HTH

Yep no worries..... we're getting there.

At around 0:44 you said you want to correct the tempo drift...... why didn't you say so?  (joke) 


That's a different kettle of fish to moving transients around. I thought you wanted the project to follow the live feel of the freely recorded drums.

Don't get too hung up on the clip map. The clip map is independent to each clip and has nothing to do with moving or adjust transients. It is merely an editor to correct what Sonar thinks is  a beat within an individual clip. It's more useful for extracting tempos and when applying project tempo to clip.

To correct tempo you can delete the tempo changes in the tempo view except the first one. 


Next.....................

1. Audio Transients should be showing on all clips
2. Select a couple of tracks or track that have good steady beats on them. I'd suggest your drum track and use the resolution setting to get a good beat for the material (quarters should be fine but maybe eighths)
3. Select the rest of the tracks (Except the drum track or the one(s)you used above) and select all transient markers, then right click on one of them and disable them all.
4. Add the earlier track(s) to the selection
5. Right click over one of the clips and then "Merge and lock Markers"
6. That should copy all transients (filtered ones) to all clips.
7. At this stage you can double click a transient in any of the tracks which will select the matching transient in all the other tracks. You can now manually move transients but to correct the timing on all in a far easier way.......
8. Right click on a clip and add the M:B:T to the pool.
9. Make sure all clips are selected and then right click on one and select "Pool---->Quantize to pool" You'll need to adjust the settings to suit but that should sort out any timing issues for you.

HTH

Yeah just multiple select and move one. You can't move one transient past the next one though.

chuckebaby


Karl, I got to say, you are one of the most valuable members on this forum.
I have absolutely no idea what the H you guys are talking about.
autosnap is so confusing to me and I think I need to spend the most of my work learning in that section of sonar.
it is such a valuable tool.

one thing that cant be ignored though is your help, man your a good guy.

Thanks Charlie, but don't under estimate your own contribution though and of course there are a whole host of other great contributors.


Audiosnap is a great tool. It is quite complex at first though but once you get your head around the concepts, it's fairly straight forward. I'm lucky I don't seem to get many of the issues that some report on here. Transients in wrong places etc. It's a God send for extracting tempo grids from live recordings which is mainly why I use it - as well as fixing the odd note that Sonar has recorded in the wrong place. 


I don't quantize audio much myself but it's pretty good at that too.