Helpful ReplyCan't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project

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gmp
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2017/05/21 17:58:04 (permalink)

Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project

I've always used 44.1 24 bit on all my projects and have a project I'd like to record at 48k 24 bit. I started a New project and chose 48k as the sampling rate. After it was opened I saw 48 24 on the transport. As soon as I record audio the transport changes to 44.1 24 and I checked the file created and it's 44.1 24 bit not 48k.
 
Under preferences I have the default sampling rate for new projects set at 44.1. I assume the New project dialog is supposed to override that default, if I set the rate at 48K, yet something isn't working right. Shouldn't this work?
 
I also wonder if it's because my AVB Ultralite is set at 44.1. I wonder if that the problem?
 
Any insight into what's happening?

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
http://gprecordingstudio.com/
Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    Jesse G
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/21 20:34:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jacksop 2017/05/24 13:10:49
    gmp
    I've always used 44.1 24 bit on all my projects and have a project I'd like to record at 48k 24 bit. I started a New project and chose 48k as the sampling rate. After it was opened I saw 48 24 on the transport. As soon as I record audio the transport changes to 44.1 24 and I checked the file created and it's 44.1 24 bit not 48k.
     
    Under preferences I have the default sampling rate for new projects set at 44.1. I assume the New project dialog is supposed to override that default, if I set the rate at 48K, yet something isn't working right. Shouldn't this work?
     
    I also wonder if it's because my AVB Ultralite is set at 44.1. I wonder if that the problem?
     
    Any insight into what's happening?




    In Sonar, change the default sample rate to what you want the the Motu AVB should record using using it,
     
    Motu Says,  "When working with one MOTU AVB audio interface, changing the sample rate from within your Digital Audio Workstation will successfully change the sample rate of the hardware."
     
    To set the sampling rate for new project:
    Go to Edit > Preferences > Audio - Driver Settings and change the Sampling Rate field to the desired number. You can choose from the available options, or enter any number that your hardware supports.


    Click Ok.

    Peace,
    Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
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    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 02:02:34 (permalink)
    Jesse G
    gmp
    I've always used 44.1 24 bit on all my projects and have a project I'd like to record at 48k 24 bit. I started a New project and chose 48k as the sampling rate. After it was opened I saw 48 24 on the transport. As soon as I record audio the transport changes to 44.1 24 and I checked the file created and it's 44.1 24 bit not 48k.
     
    Under preferences I have the default sampling rate for new projects set at 44.1. I assume the New project dialog is supposed to override that default, if I set the rate at 48K, yet something isn't working right. Shouldn't this work?
     
    I also wonder if it's because my AVB Ultralite is set at 44.1. I wonder if that the problem?
     
    Any insight into what's happening?




    In Sonar, change the default sample rate to what you want the the Motu AVB should record using using it,
     
    Motu Says,  "When working with one MOTU AVB audio interface, changing the sample rate from within your Digital Audio Workstation will successfully change the sample rate of the hardware."
     
    To set the sampling rate for new project:
    Go to Edit > Preferences > Audio - Driver Settings and change the Sampling Rate field to the desired number. You can choose from the available options, or enter any number that your hardware supports.


    Click Ok.




    Thanks for your insight on this. One would think that when creating a new project and setting the sampling rate  at 48k that it would override the Driver Settings Sampling Rate. Is this just a quirk with the AVB and some the sound cards or is this the way Sonar is supposed to work?
     
    So here's the big question: If I do first set the Driver Settings Sampling Rate at 48 and then create a new project and choose 48k, will that project forever be recording at 48k, even if I change the Driver Settings Sampling Rate back to 44.1 where I prefer to leave it?

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    maltastudio
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 05:20:42 (permalink)
    Yes once you set a sampling rate the project will always record on that sampling rate.
     
    If I where you I would change the sampling rate of the AVB as well,before I open Sonar, cause I just purchased a Motu 624 and it`s giving me nightmares when fiddling with sampling rate.
     
    Peace

    Maltastudio
     
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    #4
    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 05:57:16 (permalink)
     
    Has anyone left the driver sampling rate at 44.1 and set the sampling rate in the File/New box to 48k and had that work? It seems to me that why Sonar has that setting in that box, so a user doesn't have to go to Preferences every time they want to start  new project with a different sampling rate. Or is this a bug?

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 06:26:33 (permalink)
    maltastudio
    Yes once you set a sampling rate the project will always record on that sampling rate.
     
    If I where you I would change the sampling rate of the AVB as well,before I open Sonar, cause I just purchased a Motu 624 and it`s giving me nightmares when fiddling with sampling rate.
     
    Peace


    What kind of nightmares are you referring to?

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 06:38:28 (permalink)
    I did some testing and answered my own question. There is no bug. What happened is I started a project in 44.1 and created my own custom audio file folder for the wav files. I did some minor recording at 44.1, but nothing that I needed to keep.
     
    When I realized I wanted to instead record at 48, I just created a new project file, but I kept the exact same audio file folder I had already created that had some 44.1 wav files in it. So in this case me choosing 48k in the new project box didn’t work.
     
    The fix was to start a new project and this time name the audio file folder slightly different from the other one that had the 44.1 wav files. This time it worked great. I even went back to different 44.1 files and recorded in them and back to the 48k file and it didn't get confused.
     
    So there's no need to worry with the driver sampling rate that is only setting the initial default sampling rate for the new project box. Its very easy to change 44.1 to 48, so all is well it works as expected.
     
     

     
     

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    scook
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 16:56:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jacksop 2017/05/24 13:11:48
    gmp
    When I realized I wanted to instead record at 48, I just created a new project file, but I kept the exact same audio file folder I had already created that had some 44.1 wav files in it. So in this case me choosing 48k in the new project box didn’t work.

    The sample rate of audio files not referenced in the project do not affect the sample rate of the project.
     
    How is the sample rate of a project set?
     
    There are two ways to initialize the sample rate of a project:
    1. The sample rate drop down in the New Project dialog or
    2. The default in Preferences when not using the New Project Dialog
    This is not the end of the story though and this is important...sample rate is not stored in the project file. The sample rate of a project may be changed at any time as long as the project does not reference any audio files. This means opening a project that does not reference any audio files causes the project to revert to the default sample rate regardless of the initial setting. Why? Because the sample rate is not stored in the project file. As previously mentioned the sample rates of audio files not referenced in the project do not matter. If they did it would have been impossible to have projects at different sample rates prior to per-project audio folders.
     
    The sample rate of a project is set by the audio files referenced in the project. Until that time, the initial sample rate is used during the first session and the default is used in subsequent sessions.
     
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    brconflict
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 17:22:48 (permalink)
    gmp
     
    Has anyone left the driver sampling rate at 44.1 and set the sampling rate in the File/New box to 48k and had that work? It seems to me that why Sonar has that setting in that box, so a user doesn't have to go to Preferences every time they want to start  new project with a different sampling rate. Or is this a bug?


    I had a real snafu doing this. I had my MOTU (not blaming MOTU) set up for 44.1khz and the Sonar session was set to 96Khz. After the entire session of not noticing this, the project played back way too fast. Or the sampling rates were reversed, I don't recall. So, I had to go back and fix all this manually. There was a header tool I could use to fool Sonar into thinking a file was a different sampling rate so that when the session was opened, Sonar would treat it as the correct rate. It was a seriously confusing process. I don't recommend trying it. I recommend adding a step in the recording process to ensure the MOTU and Sonar sampling rates match perfectly. Otherwise, results might be iffy.

    Meanwhile, the latest versions of Sonar seem to try and run at the rate of the MOTU, especially for playback. While I like this vs. the old error that would simply just not let you playback the audio, it does require additional diligence to just ensure your sampling rates are matched.

    Brian
     
    Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 22:27:13 (permalink)
    scook
    gmp
    When I realized I wanted to instead record at 48, I just created a new project file, but I kept the exact same audio file folder I had already created that had some 44.1 wav files in it. So in this case me choosing 48k in the new project box didn’t work.

    The sample rate of audio files not referenced in the project do not affect the sample rate of the project.
     
    How is the sample rate of a project set?
     
    There are two ways to initialize the sample rate of a project:
    1. The sample rate drop down in the New Project dialog or
    2. The default in Preferences when not using the New Project Dialog
    This is not the end of the story though and this is important...sample rate is not stored in the project file. The sample rate of a project may be changed at any time as long as the project does not reference any audio files. This means opening a project that does not reference any audio files causes the project to revert to the default sample rate regardless of the initial setting. Why? Because the sample rate is not stored in the project file. As previously mentioned the sample rates of audio files not referenced in the project do not matter. If they did it would have been impossible to have projects at different sample rates prior to per-project audio folders.
     
    The sample rate of a project is set by the audio files referenced in the project. Until that time, the initial sample rate is used during the first session and the default is used in subsequent sessions.
     


     
    Thanks for all the details. I’m stil not totally clear on a few things. So in my case since I want to keep my Preferences / driver sampling rate default set to 44.1, if I want to create a new project and work at 48k for the whole project. I need to go to File/New and change the default sampling rate to 48k and then when the file opens. I need to right away record a little bit of audio to lock in the sampling rate for this song at 48k. Is that correct?

     
    So if I then go back to some other songs and record at 44.1 and later come back to the 48k song, will I still be at 48k or do I have to go to preferences and change that default rate to 48k?
     
    If import some 44.1 audio into this project, does that mess up my 48k sampling rate?
     
    Thanks for your help,
     

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    scook
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 22:42:01 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jacksop 2017/05/24 13:12:33
    The easiest way to create a project at a sample rate other than the default specified in preferences is the New Project dialog. Set the desired sample rate in the New Project dialog and immediate record or copy an audio clip into the new project. By adding audio immediately to the project, the next time the project is opened, SONAR will use the sample rate of the audio. If you do not have confidence that your interface is properly switching to the new sample rate, make sure to verify the sample rate in the interface before recording any audio.
     
    I do not have MOTU to test but in my case, I can have multiple projects each set to a different sample rate open at the same time. Switching between the projects switches the interface sample rate and shows the current project sample rate in the transport module. The same is true anytime I open a project that runs a different sample rate than the last one opened as long as the project has audio.
     
    While SONAR can work with audio clips at different bit depths ALL the audio in a project must be the same sample rate. Dragging a 44.1k file into a 48k project will cause SONAR to convert the 44.1k file to 48k.
     
    If a project has audio files referenced in the the same rate is fixed and will not change. If a project has no audio files referenced in it when opened the project reverts to the default in Preferences. Of course, this can be reset by temporarily changing the default and record or copy a clip at the correct sample rate.
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    gmp
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/22 23:16:37 (permalink)
    Thanks SCook, it's clear now. Yesterday I did do a record test just like you explained and my MOTU passed it fine. I never have more than on e project open, so I won't have any problems with confusing the interface.
     
    I'm glad to hear that importing 44.1 into a 48 project will convert it to 48. That's exactly what I need. I now see how the sample rate is recorded in a project it's not in the CWP, but in the audio folder all files have the same sample rate, which explains my original post problem. I was using the same audio folder that I saved a 44.1 wav file.

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    maltastudio
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    Re: Can't use 48k instead of 44.1 on New project 2017/05/23 05:59:05 (permalink)
    "What kind of nightmares are you referring to?"
     
    Nightmares with one particular powerful laptop,where the sampling rate does not change automatically or it just crashes the motu driver.
    This is not a motu only problem it`s an intel,windows and acer problem.
    It has nothing to do with your problem.
    By the way the 624 works perfect on 2 other win 10 pcs.
    Meanwhile i`m still waiting for an update from  these 4 big names.
     
    Peace

    Maltastudio
     
    Win 10 home 64Bit  
    Sonar Platinum Latest 64Bit  
    Pro Tools 12.. Latest
    Motu 624 AVB , Yamaha 01v96i
    www.maltastudio.com
    https://soundcloud.com/charlesmuscat
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