dubdisciple
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/19 15:53:31
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GjB
Cactus Music
Grant:
Don't you have an older version of Sonar? Dim Pro is a great little VST I have the Accoustic Full Bass on about 60 backing tracks so I certainly need it.
Unfortunately not. I never ventured higher than Professional. So Dimension LE it was.
(Cakewalk By BandLab vs SONAR Versions Comparison Chart)
One way to get beefier versions of some of the software that was included in Sonar is back issues of Computer music magazine. I believe Zeta+ and Rapture have been given away. The digital versions are dirt cheap.
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Cactus Music
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/19 16:07:14
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I also have Professional on my CCC list and I guess Dim Pro LE is there as it used to be in my list. I didn't install any Profesional stuff last time around so I don't see Dim Pro LE now. But I seem to remember a lot of the same instruments were included including the Full Acoustic Bass.
I've been populating my CbB barebones copy here at work with freebies.
Only thing missing is AD2 which is hard to replace with a freebie. So if I was a first timer I would be purchasing AD2 or something similar. The SI Drums are pretty lame.
The other HUGE feature missing is Melodyn. I never used it on vocals but it is critical to me for converting Audio to MIDI bass tracks. I would have to play my bass tracks on the keyboard again so big step backwards in workflow.
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michaelhanson
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/19 16:18:02
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Can't you just log into your Celemony and XLN accounts and use your second license option on that computer, Johnny?
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abacab
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/19 17:21:30
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THAT ^^^ sounds like a plan!!! Celemony and XLN are completely 3rd party products not locked to the Sonar installation.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Cactus Music
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/19 17:33:14
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Of course but this is just a 3rd install on a laptop at work so I could sort of see what it will be like for those who don't own Sonar. My son is one of these people so I'll be helping him get going. I have 2 fully populated systems and that uses up my 2 licences for XLN and Air. I opened a new account for XLN and grabbed the free Piano. I also installed the Ample P Bass free and the Guitar Free and an Combo F annd V Organ from .here- http://www.kvraudio.com/news/martinic-announces-combo-model-f---transistor-organ-17074
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chris.r
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 01:24:17
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mettelusI can see both sides of the Sonitus comments, and another thing is that there are a lot of totally new users who will get a "first impression" from appearance only. A revamp of a GUI is not actually that complex, and aesthetics alone go a long way to a first time user/buyer. Agree. I have read so many reviews about how musically do Sonitus plugins sound, if there's not much to rework soundwise why not give them a more contemporary look. Given how many people rate plugins based on their GUI that wouldn't be silly move at all.
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Daibhidh
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 05:00:05
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Jarsve
I know this might upset some. but i guess BandLab now owns the Sonitus Suite.
So why not just make them look better.
I mean, more intuitive, so they will be easier to use. Its nothing wrong with the sound in those plugins.
Maybe make them some bigger, and group the knobs related to each other. Make the plugin Cakewalk theme compatible, With same sliders, knobs and the rest as Cakewalk.
And by doing this, dont say this is brand new sounds, but say it as it is. The same great sound, but with brand new user experience.
You could go into the suggestions thread and ask for a new GUI for the Sonitus Suite, perhaps even a pro-channel GUI.
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GjB
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 06:59:23
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dubdisciple
One way to get beefier versions of some of the software that was included in Sonar is back issues of Computer music magazine. I believe Zeta+ and Rapture have been given away. The digital versions are dirt cheap.
Yes, thank you. I got Rapture in July of 2017 by getting the February 2014 back issue of Computer Magazine 200th edition. I learned about it in this thread.
post edited by GjB - 2018/04/21 10:19:38
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bitflipper
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 14:15:34
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Putting a fresh face on the Sonitus suite might seem like a trivial undertaking, but AFAIK there is only one coder working on Cakewalk today, and his priority is making the transition happen smoothly. Next on the priorities list will be pending bug fixes and enhancements to the core program. Much further down the list will be updating bundled freebies, and even then the emphasis will be on stability and features rather than cosmetics.
Looking at the Sonitus plugins, I'm not seeing a lot of justification for the "long in the tooth" accusation (one that I've made myself, btw). They still sport some of the cleanest, easiest-to-use UIs around. The compressor is still a favorite for sidechaining, and the multi-band compressor is one of the clearest, most straightforward implementations I've seen. I have to admit, though, that I've become spoiled for resizable GUIs.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Anderton
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 17:46:21
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bitflipper
Looking at the Sonitus plugins...They still sport some of the cleanest, easiest-to-use UIs around. The compressor is still a favorite for sidechaining, and the multi-band compressor is one of the clearest, most straightforward implementations I've seen.
I don't feel a compelling need for a different interface either, and I'm not always convinced an "interfacelift" is such a good idea. For example on balance, I like the original Rapture interface (despite its limitations) more than the Rapture Pro one.
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AT
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 17:58:37
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So few, Mr. bitflipper? I always thought that was part of the problem w/ Cake - too much staff for the PC market for DAWs. But one programmer seems a bit low for anything other fixing bugs. The only larger DAW company (excepting PT) that is doing well seems to be Steinberg , which is both dual OS and has the integration w/ Yamaha hardware. Roland tried, but if I was a CEO I wouldn't want to have to pay two licensing fees for a PC DAW and Mac. However, with a small workforce you can make PC-only DAWS viable - see the list.
The last thing Cake needs is to polish a functional Direct X effect so it looks better. Because: it is a waste of money to further develop a dead end technology you can't sell - "What, this isn't a VST? What the hell is it?" Secondly, the dynamic face plate of the comp is a perfect picture of what happens to the sound - the knee and ratios and how they curb the volume. Better than any # of youtube videos. You can't make it sexier than that.
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scook
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 18:08:18
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I believe two coders were retained. Also one from QA and one from support. Possibly more by this time, IDK.
The Sonitus Suite did have a 32bit VST version as part of the paid bundle. Rather than rework the UI, if BandLab was going to throw money at the Sonitus plug-ins, I would rather see the VST format ported to 64bit. The fewer DX plug-ins the better.
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Brando
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 22:25:32
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scook
I believe two coders were retained. Also one from QA and one from support. Possibly more by this time, IDK.
The Sonitus Suite did have a 32bit VST version as part of the paid bundle. Rather than rework the UI, if BandLab was going to throw money at the Sonitus plug-ins, I would rather see the VST format ported to 64bit. The fewer DX plug-ins the better.
I agree with this Scook. I think the GUIs have a bit of charm actually. Seen far worse. Would be nice to have the sonitus suite as 64 bit.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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garyhb
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/20 23:50:55
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Port the Sonitus plugs to vst. Leave the interface as-is. I'm not bothered about the Nomad plugins.
I bought MixBus32C with waves Scheps Omni channel and F6, got the overloud verbs unlocked. Some of the other splat native plugs work in MB too like Channel tools and LA comp.
Personally, I only use Splat now for midi composition and production as it's pretty powerful. MB for mastering too.
Mixing in MB really works for me and I'm happy with the sound and workflow.
Just my 2d's...
Gear: Sonar Platinum 64bit, Win 10 Pro 64bit. Soundcraft Signature MTR 22. Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 @ 3.40GHz, 16GB ECC RAM, Dell MB 0PM2CW, NVIDIA GeForce 210, 5TB WD Black storage, HannsG HT231 23" multi-touch monitor (1920x1080), LG 22" W2242S (1680x1050), Soundcraft Signature MTR 22, Adam A77X, Sonarworks Reference 3, Studiologic VMK188+ and the usual other stuff there's no space for...
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pwalpwal
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 09:21:51
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scook
The Sonitus Suite did have a 32bit VST version as part of the paid bundle. Rather than rework the UI, if BandLab was going to throw money at the Sonitus plug-ins, I would rather see the VST format ported to 64bit. The fewer DX plug-ins the better.
agree, i would've bought them already if VST64
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paulo
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 11:53:04
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2018/04/21 19:31:50
First impressions ?
Is it not exactly the same thing with fewer options and a different badge ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the program lives and that there is potential for it to grow and become further developed, but until that happens what new impressions are there to have?
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mudgel
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 13:17:20
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chris.r
scook
Because the Breverb2 PC module is bundled with CbB.
Oh, I thought it belongs to the "third party" section... glad to see it here.
I'm on 32bit laptop, couldn't install CakeLab yet.
CbB Cakewalk by BandLab is 64 bit only. There won’t be a 32bit version.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 13:46:32
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2018/04/21 14:54:35
paulo
First impressions ?
Is it not exactly the same thing with fewer options and a different badge ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the program lives and that there is potential for it to grow and become further developed, but until that happens what new impressions are there to have?
No, CbB is actually the next generation of SONAR Platinum. There is some confusion between the distinction between the Platinum program and the bundle. There were two components to to our older SKU's. The program itself platinum, studio, artist and home studio all had different feature sets with platinum having the largest and most complete set. Next we had a bunch of add on plugins in the package. Some were third party and some were Cakewalk plugin's that we bundled along with the SONAR platinum program. The CbB program that we released is identical to Platinum with the exception of the POW-r dither that we had to take out for licensing reasons. It actually has more features and fixes than Platinum since we've been working on it awhile now. The next update which will no longer be listed as early access, has even more bug fixes and more enhancements to the two new features that were added. We also have some more add on's in the package coming. If you have platinum already installed you can utilize all the add ons and plugins from there that are not included in the CbB release. So in fact if you have CbB you now have the most up to date and feature complete version of Cakewalk. Hope this clarifies things.
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paulo
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 14:35:35
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
paulo
First impressions ?
Is it not exactly the same thing with fewer options and a different badge ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the program lives and that there is potential for it to grow and become further developed, but until that happens what new impressions are there to have?
No, CbB is actually the next generation of SONAR Platinum. There is some confusion between the distinction between the Platinum program and the bundle. There were two components to to our older SKU's.
The program itself platinum, studio, artist and home studio all had different feature sets with platinum having the largest and most complete set. Next we had a bunch of add on plugins in the package. Some were third party and some were Cakewalk plugin's that we bundled along with the SONAR platinum program.
The CbB program that we released is identical to Platinum with the exception of the POW-r dither that we had to take out for licensing reasons. It actually has more features and fixes than Platinum since we've been working on it awhile now. The next update which will no longer be listed as early access, has even more bug fixes and more enhancements to the two new features that were added. We also have some more add on's in the package coming.
If you have platinum already installed you can utilize all the add ons and plugins from there that are not included in the CbB release. So in fact if you have CbB you now have the most up to date and feature complete version of Cakewalk. Hope this clarifies things.
You'll have to trust me that I'm typing this with a smile on my face and with no malice intended, but on the one hand you're saying it's "next generation" on the other "identical to platinum" with a few things missing which is what I said it and hence couldn't understand the first impressions logic. I fully understand re the licensing issue and that whatever I had before I still have, but there is no longer a 32 bit option, hence why I referred to it as the same thing with less options. Purely from my perspective that omission presents me with some issues and is the reason I have not installed the "next generation" version onto my DAW pc and will not until there is a compelling reason to do so. I wish you and all who are associated with the product well and sincerely hope that I will one day feel that what I will gain use of from having it will outweigh what I will lose the use of by having it.
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Billy Buck
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 14:52:33
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
No, CbB is actually the next generation of SONAR Platinum........... It actually has more features and fixes than Platinum since we've been working on it awhile now. The next update which will no longer be listed as early access, has even more bug fixes and more enhancements to the two new features that were added. We also have some more add on's in the package coming.
If you have platinum already installed you can utilize all the add ons and plugins from there that are not included in the CbB release. So in fact if you have CbB you now have the most up to date and feature complete version of Cakewalk. Hope this clarifies things.
Thanks for the SPLAT/CbB clarification Noel. I installed CbB alongside my SPLAT install and have been primarily using CbB since it was released and will continue to do so. With SPLAT installed as a working backup, I still have access to all of the premium and third party content while using the latest most up to date and feature complete CbB going forward. Looking forward to what the future brings to CbB! 
Win 10 Pro x64 | i7 4770k | ASUS Z87 Deluxe/Quad w/ TB 2.0 | 16GB Corsair RAM | Apollo Twin Duo USB | UAD Satellite Octo USB | UAD-2 Quad + UAD-2 Solo PCIe | SONAR Platinum x64 ∞ | REAPER 5 x64| TranzPort
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JoeGBradford
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 14:53:28
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Noel - will the next release - hopefully with custom installation options - still be free?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 15:50:00
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They have repeatedly said "yes" to this question.
But I'm equally sure there will be paid add-ons in the not too distant future
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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JoeGBradford
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 15:57:21
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Thanks. I think I have lost the plot with all the different threads :-)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:01:22
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☄ Helpfulby ionecake 2018/04/21 19:17:08
paulo
You'll have to trust me that I'm typing this with a smile on my face and with no malice intended, but on the one hand you're saying it's "next generation" on the other "identical to platinum" with a few things missing which is what I said it and hence couldn't understand the first impressions logic.
I fully understand re the licensing issue and that whatever I had before I still have, but there is no longer a 32 bit option, hence why I referred to it as the same thing with less options. Purely from my perspective that omission presents me with some issues and is the reason I have not installed the "next generation" version onto my DAW pc and will not until there is a compelling reason to do so. I wish you and all who are associated with the product well and sincerely hope that I will one day feel that what I will gain use of from having it will outweigh what I will lose the use of by having it.
To clarify we started with last version of platinum that we had before Cakewalk,Inc closed - the November release which never shipped. So it actually was a regular monthly update to the October version. However we made several other changes and enhancements to the code since. I called it the next generation because its a new app that will be modified and enhanced compared to the SONAR product line which is now dead. I would argue that there is no good reason for a SONAR user to not install this unless you aren't interested in bug fixes or features any more. Even in the short time we've been making changes it already works better for some.
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ionecake
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:19:33
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Hey Noel, Any chance you could give us an idea of the size of the team you have working on Cakewalk now? There's some confusion floating around that it's just one or two developers and maybe one or two support guys. Is that about right?
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Anderton
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:20:18
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would argue that there is no good reason for a SONAR user to not install this unless you aren't interested in bug fixes or features any more. Even in the short time we've been making changes it already works better for some.
I agree. If you had Platinum all the add-ons show up, and the CbB version is more up to date. Some people might think a good reason not to install CbB is if there was some issue that made people stick with an older version of Sonar, and the issue remains in CbB. However since you can still run the old version of Sonar, you can follow a parallel path with CbB and take advantage of what it does and if you really need to use the old version, you still can. I just don't see any significant reason not to move forward.
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bapu
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:38:51
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ionecake
Hey Noel, Any chance you could give us an idea of the size of the team you have working on Cakewalk now? There's some confusion floating around that it's just one or two developers and maybe one or two support guys. Is that about right?
I'm not sure why you included the additional query of who wears boxers and who wears briefs. What earthly good is there in knowing how many developers there are. I've worked in all manner of team sizes and in my almost 40 years of programming experience I have found that (team) size does not matter. It's the deliverables that matter. How many people it took to do it is nearly irrelevant, IMO.
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bapu
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:41:04
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Anderton
I just don't see any significant reason not to move forward.
Some people (believe it or not) are still on a 32bit OS. There is one very significant reason that one (i.e. Paulo) *cannot* yet move forward.
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paulo
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:47:12
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would argue that there is no good reason for a SONAR user to not install this.....
Well, I guess that you don't consider 32 bit Vst's that I use often that either have restricted functionality (unable to write automation) or for some reason are not even recognised by the 64 bit version of Platinum (Miroslav Philharmonik and Sampletank) to be a good reason, but they are good enough reasons for me to just stick with Platinum for now. I understand that times change and technology moves forward etc, but there's nothing in the first release from bandlab to justify ditching those vst's IMO. (not to mention having to pay for 64 bit replacements) As I said, hopefully in the future the advantages of using the 64 bit only bandlab version will outweigh the negatives for me, but right now that isn't the case.
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Anderton
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Re: CbB First Impressions
2018/04/21 19:52:06
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Good point, I'd forgotten about 32-bit operation. To be fair it's a pretty small percentage these days...I remember going through analytics when writing one of the Top 10 Sonar charts for the monthly release, and I was surprised at how many Sonar users were full-on 64-bit.
As to paying for 64-bit replacements, IIRC around the time the transition was happening you could often update to a 64-bit version as long as it wasn't a next-gen paid upgrade. Don't know how generous companies are feeling these days, though.
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