Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio?

Author
endoverend
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 102
  • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
  • Location: California
  • Status: offline
2009/10/27 16:14:58 (permalink)

Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio?

Hey,
i have been around for awhile using Sonar for a long time.
 
i have some ancient tracks that were recorded (example) at tempo 150 and want to copy - past into new project at say tempo 75
when i attempt this- the paste gets stretched out oooooooof timmmmmmmmmmmme kinda like its hangin onto broadcast time stamp or something.
 
i have tried everything i could think of short of exporting and re importing (export audio menu) this i wish to avoid as i have a lot of edits in play.
 
IE copy track in one project - Paste into new project with new tempo - overrride the timestamp by using beginning of song as reference point of start.
 
if i bounce it all out and back i lose all my edits and automation is a do over -- time waster --posiible degredation of audio
 
anyone got the secret sauce ?
 
thanks
 
 
EOE
 
 

Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
built by www.studiocat.com 
#1

20 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 16:43:03 (permalink)
    the paste gets stretched out oooooooof timmmmmmmmmmmme kinda like its hangin onto broadcast time stamp or something.


    MIDI tracks will follow the tempo of the new project, but you're talking about audio tracks, right?

    If you have Autostretch (a.k.a. Clip Follow Project) enabled on the clip in the source project, it will take on the tempo of the new project, otherwise it should retain its absolute time/tempo, which is what you want, right? You want the time ruler beats and metronome to run at half the rate, but you want the audio to play back at the same rate it did in the old project, right?

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #2
    Dave King
    Max Output Level: -46.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2862
    • Joined: 2005/11/13 14:19:48
    • Location: Connecticut, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 16:43:39 (permalink)
    Is this a bit-rate issue?  Check to see if both projects are operating at the same bit-rate.

    Dave King
    www.davekingmusic.com

    SONAR X2 Producer 64-Bit 
    StudioCat PC
    Windows 7 Home Premium, Service Pack 1 
    Intel Corel i5 3450 CPU @3.10 GHz 
    RAM 8 GB
    M-Audio Delta 44

    M-Audio MidiSport 2x2
     
    #3
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:34:41 (permalink)
    we are talking audio wav file only
    both projects match  48 k - 24 bit
    time is cut exactly in half

    EOE

    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #4
    CJaysMusic
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 30423
    • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
    • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:36:31 (permalink)
    Audio snap does this and its a snap. No pun intended. Yuo can change single files or whole projects in just a couple of clicks. Hey, i may try out to be the new Billy Mays...
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #5
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:37:24 (permalink)
    or ?

    how do change the tempo in the project file i have to 75 from 150 without any wav audio moving ?

    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #6
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:39:06 (permalink)
    audiosnap?

    for 50 tracks ?

    hmmm

    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #7
    CJaysMusic
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 30423
    • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
    • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:40:46 (permalink)
    Yes, ive Snaped 80 tracks at one time to change the tempo. Tracks count means nothing.. Watch the videos. Its nothing hard.

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #8
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:53:36 (permalink)
    got a link to that video CJ?

    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #9
    CJaysMusic
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 30423
    • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
    • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 17:56:31 (permalink)
    Not off hand, but look in the video archives for audio snap
    You basically do this
    Wrap all the clips with your mouse so there all selected (zoom in to make this easier)
    Then enable audio snap
    Then enable stetching
    Then change the tempo in the large transport.

    Its thats easy. Im going form memory without having sonar open
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #10
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 18:40:36 (permalink)
    time is cut exactly in half


    It's still not clear to me whether you want the audio to change tempo, or to retain its original tempo. When you lower the tempo of a project (or copy audio to a new project with a lower tempo) with the clip set to Follow Project (Autostretch enabled), the playback time will double , not halve. And if you lower  the tempo without stretching the audio, the audio will occupy half as many measures in the timeline, but play back at the original rate. Which of these two options do you want? Or do you want something else?





    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #11
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 18:53:50 (permalink)
    hey brundlefly

    I want the audio to stay the same and the project to change tempo
    i do not want to stretch the audio
    i am skeptical about processing in audiosnap as i want the tempo to change and the audio to stay the way it is
    and
     
    (C J) stretching it to the song tempo sounds good  - but i want to keep it as virgin as possible by changing the project  and not the audio.

    audiosnap is coola nd works good sometimes  -but not all the time and the interface is a JOKE.

    EOE

    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #12
    CJaysMusic
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 30423
    • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
    • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 19:02:47 (permalink)
    C J) stretching it to the song tempo sounds good - but i want to keep it as virgin as possible by changing the project and not the audio.

    Um if you change the tempo, the audio changes also. There is no way around this. Do a save as to keep the project as vergin, as you callit and then youll have a unsnpped version.
    And yes, AS works great for this.. The interface is easier than the old one. yuo just need to get used to it and learn it. Im much faster with the new audio snap
    Cj
     

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #13
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 19:04:24 (permalink)
    I want the audio to stay the same and the project to change tempo i do not want to stretch the audio


    Okay. That's what I originally thought. In that case, you don't want/need to use Audiosnap, and should make sure it's disabled on all clips. Then when you copy the audio to the new project with the lower tempo (or even if you change the tempo of the existing project), you should get exactly what you want. I'm not sure what the problem is. With a lower tempo, the audio clips will appear to be shorter in the new project, because the time ruler is the absolute visual reference in SONAR (for a given zoom level), but the playback rate should not alter.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #14
    CJaysMusic
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 30423
    • Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
    • Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 19:25:31 (permalink)
    someday, ill be able to express myslef as well as Brundlefty........
    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
    Audio Blog
    #15
    Oaf_Topik
    Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2105
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 17:11:26
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 19:27:52 (permalink)
    Try the MPEX Time/Pitch algorithm.

    #16
    endoverend
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 102
    • Joined: 2004/03/21 23:30:13
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 19:47:57 (permalink)
    i have experimented at length

    the pasted tracks will not remain in context (they are edited bits and pieces) not (bounced to clips)
    contiguous -- they get stretched out and track names are lost too - lame

    i will not alter the native wav files as they are great tracks that may suffer from time pitch alogs

    i want to do this (the right way) with the app - not the audio

    thanks to all for the input - no solid answer yet

    eoe


    Win 7 64, I7 2600k, 16gb
    Sonar X2A, RME FF 800
    Pro Tools 11.01HD Native Card 16/16 I/O
    built by www.studiocat.com 
    #17
    Dave King
    Max Output Level: -46.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2862
    • Joined: 2005/11/13 14:19:48
    • Location: Connecticut, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 21:27:59 (permalink)
    Maybe this is a dumb question, but why can't you live with the original tempo in the new project?

    Dave King
    www.davekingmusic.com

    SONAR X2 Producer 64-Bit 
    StudioCat PC
    Windows 7 Home Premium, Service Pack 1 
    Intel Corel i5 3450 CPU @3.10 GHz 
    RAM 8 GB
    M-Audio Delta 44

    M-Audio MidiSport 2x2
     
    #18
    robcathcart
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 32
    • Joined: 2008/07/12 22:01:05
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/27 21:29:45 (permalink)
    Hi there,
    Just a thought.  Forgive me if it's not thought out.........
    Get yer project dialed in at the new tempo, ditch the audio, go to the old project and export audio into wave files and import into new project.
    Should only take a few days.......

    Rob Cathcart
    Sonar 8.5 Producer 64bit, XP 64bit
    Core i7 950 3.06, P6T Deluxe V2, 12GB RAM, Nvidia Quatro,  Edirol UA-101 , UAD-1
    Toonz @  www.myspace.com/robcathcart
    #19
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/28 01:31:23 (permalink)
    the pasted tracks will not remain in context (they are edited bits and pieces) not (bounced to clips) contiguous -- they get stretched out and track names are lost too - lame


    New information. New instructions. 

    Actually, I should have thought of this, and mentioned it earlier:

    If there is more than one clip in a track or the one clip in the track does not start at 1:01:000, you also have to make sure that the clip start times remain absolute. By default, audio clip length is absolute, but start times are not. They follow M:B:T, just like MIDI, because normally when changing tempo you want the audio to follow the time ruler and any MIDI in the project. But in your case, you want the time between clips as well as the clips themselves to maintain that absolute time relationship.

    To do that, select the entire track (before copy-pasting it), right click one of the clips, choose Properties, and change the Time Base from M:B:T to Absolute.

    Give it a shot.








    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #20
    Marah
    Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 975
    • Joined: 2009/02/04 21:56:41
    • Status: offline
    Re:Change Tempo to half time without stretching wav audio? 2009/10/28 02:02:54 (permalink)
    endoverend


    the pasted tracks will not remain in context (they are edited bits and pieces) not (bounced to clips)
    contiguous -- they get stretched out and track names are lost too - lame


    The non-contiguousness can be and probably is a source of problems. Audio Snap doesn't see empty space, or adjust for the changed context of the clips.  

    It's still not entirely clear to me what you're trying to do, but it sounds like you're trying to do it very much mid-project, with lots of non-consolidated clips and empty space, as opposed to eg stems that all start at zero and end at whatever. If that's the case, then I believe your patience will snap long before Audio Snap gives you a satisfactory full project bpm shift.
    post edited by Marah - 2009/10/28 02:03:55
    #21
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1