Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch...

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QuadCore
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2015/05/06 16:24:28 (permalink)

Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch...

Hi guys.  So is there a way to change playback speed of a clip like way there is a way to change the pitch of a clip? 
I know how to convert audio to groove clips in a project and use tempo map, but that's not what i want to do here - just want to hear a stereo demo speeded up a bit.  What's the best way to do this?  Is there another way besides 'groove clip' it TIA.  
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    slartabartfast
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/06 16:37:23 (permalink)
    Process > length or Process > fit to time.
     
    That will make a new track that plays at the speed you determine. Back up the original track before you do a process. There is no way to just make the whole project play faster or slower at will. Speeding up tempo only affects MIDI.
    post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/05/06 16:53:56
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    Zargg
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/06 16:55:22 (permalink)
    Ctrl (left) click and drag. If it does not work. Right click on the clip, and select bounce to clip(s), and try again.

    Ken Nilsen
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/06 17:34:03 (permalink)
    slartabartfast
    There is no way to just make the whole project play faster or slower at will. Speeding up tempo only affects MIDI.



    If Groove Clip Looping or Audiosnap Autostretch is enabled (same algorithm), audio will follow tempo changes too. I'm not sure why the OP doesn't want to do it that way - maybe he just wants to fit a clip into an existing project, in which case Fit to Time or Slip-stretching as Ken mentioned will do that - but I just wanted to correct the above for posterity.

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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 17:31:31 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    slartabartfast
    There is no way to just make the whole project play faster or slower at will. Speeding up tempo only affects MIDI.



    If Groove Clip Looping or Audiosnap Autostretch is enabled (same algorithm), audio will follow tempo changes too. I'm not sure why the OP doesn't want to do it that way - maybe he just wants to fit a clip into an existing project, in which case Fit to Time or Slip-stretching as Ken mentioned will do that - but I just wanted to correct the above for posterity.




    Thanks, brundlefly. Does groove clip work on long clips that are many bars long?  Or do long clips have to be chopped up into bars?
     
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 17:41:04 (permalink)
    Groove clip looping does have a limit in the neighborhood of 256 beats IIRC. Plus you have to make sure the Beats in Clip value is correct and the clip ends right on a beat to prevent immediate stretching when you enable it. For long clips, it's much easier to enable Audiosnap and click the Clip Follows Project button in the AS Palette. It will default to Autostretch mode (see the dropdown to the right of the button), which is what you want. You can also enable this function via the Audiosnap section of the Clips tab in the Track Inspector. Autostretch doesn't alter the clip in any way until you change the tempo.
     

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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 17:43:42 (permalink)
    I've turned entire tracks (clips that extend for the whole project) into GrooveClips to try out different tempos while composing. Works fine (but will cause artifacts in the audio until you bounce the time stretching).
     
    You will want to be sure to trim the start and end of any clips you do this to so they start and end exactly at snap points (like measure lines). This will keep the clip/timing in place within the project.
     
    If you want to keep the change (I usually just do this when writing then retrack at the new tempo) and there are still artifacts after bouncing the clip try a) another offline render algorithm and/or b) opening the clip in the Loop Constructor view and adding more finite (or custom) splits to get better fidelity.
     
    Cheers.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 17:45:50 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Groove clip looping does have a limit in the neighborhood of 256 beats IIRC.




    Hmm... I did not have any problems but maybe because I was working with a raw clip it just compensated... or perhaps my song wasn't long enough to hit the limit (but I'm pretty sure even though it is a quickie it ain't that short).
     
    Weird.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 17:48:30 (permalink)
    Even still just putting a split or two on the clip(s) and converting all the GC would workaround that.
     
    Or you could just do the Time Stretch slip edit (hold Alt while hovering over the clip edge so it turns yellow then drag it like a normal slip edit... pretty sure it obeys Snap so just line it up accordingly... again you'll wnat to pre crop the clips for accuracy).
     
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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 18:17:06 (permalink)
    Thanks, guys. 
     
    So some of my clips have three bars, some four.  Do the clips have to have en even number of bars? 
    Another question - can i groove clip more than one clip at a time, by selecting multiple clips before 'groove clipping'?
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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 18:23:12 (permalink)
    1) No, they can be any length but as I said it's best to have the edges land at measures/beats... so you'll be fine.
     
    2) I think so but converting to Groove Clips requires a bit of work CPU work so you might not want to do a whole bunch at once. I could be wrong on that though.
     
    Cheers.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 18:32:34 (permalink)
    Beepster
    brundlefly
    Groove clip looping does have a limit in the neighborhood of 256 beats IIRC.




    Hmm... I did not have any problems but maybe because I was working with a raw clip it just compensated... or perhaps my song wasn't long enough to hit the limit (but I'm pretty sure even though it is a quickie it ain't that short).
     
    Weird.


    Seems I was remembering previously posted misinformation :
     
         http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2967934

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 18:45:22 (permalink)
    I still think Audiosnap is easiest for having multiple tracks/clips follow tempo changes where you aren't actually intending to "loop" them - i.e. roll out additional iterations:
     
    - Ctrl+A to select everything
    - Shift+A to open the Audiosnap palette
    - Click the "power" button to enable AS on all selected audio clips
    - Click Clip Follows Project
    - Change Tempo
     
    Bouncing down with content-specific per-clip rendering algorithms may or may not significantly improve the result. In my experience the default Groove Clip algorithm works about as well as anything in many cases.
     

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    #13
    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 18:55:49 (permalink)
    So the first clip i tried is four bars and it worked fine as far as length change goes - it didn't change length. 
    But the second clip i tired changed length - it got shorter by a bar or so, even though i have not changed the tempo yet - it's 18 bars in length.  Could i be doing something wrong?  what am i missing?
    #14
    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:05:45 (permalink)
    ...In fact a lot of them are changing lenght.  I have cropped them all to grid measures, and tried 'bouncing to clips' before groove clipping and still get this.  what do you suppose i might be overlooking?  TIA.
     
    #15
    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:23:37 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    I still think Audiosnap is easiest for having multiple tracks/clips follow tempo changes where you aren't actually intending to "loop" them - i.e. roll out additional iterations:
     
    - Ctrl+A to select everything
    - Shift+A to open the Audiosnap palette
    - Click the "power" button to enable AS on all selected audio clips
    - Click Clip Follows Project
    - Change Tempo
     
    Bouncing down with content-specific per-clip rendering algorithms may or may not significantly improve the result. In my experience the default Groove Clip algorithm works about as well as anything in many cases.
     



    When i try this the clip changes length also.  It sounds like you guys are saying this should not happen. 
    I wonder what i could be doing wrong...  any ideas?
     
     
    #16
    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:32:32 (permalink)
    Yeah, something ain't right. Sounds like the clips somehow already had a tempo printed to them and by engaging GC they adjust to fit the project tempo. Not sure how to deal with that or how to correct it but you could check to see what (if) the tempo field on in the Clip Inspector says.
     
    Open the Inspector with the original (not looped/converted) clip selected (only one at a time or it will switch to "Multi" which won't provide individual info) the click the Clips tab in the Inspector, click the Groove Clip subsection and look for a tempo field.
     
    Not sure but if that IS what's happening maybe you can just change it to the project tempo and try again. Alternatively I think you can choose a tempo for clips in the Loop Constructor view. I'm still relatively new to this type of stuff though so check the manual or wait for someone smarter than I am to show up. lol
     
    Cheers.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:34:07 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    Seems I was remembering previously posted misinformation :
     
         http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2967934




    Thanks for clarifying. That probably would have gotten stuck in the back of my head otherwise making me say/do faulty stuff.
     
    Cheers.
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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:36:07 (permalink)
    Ok, i found a clue - for some reason the only clips that groove clip properly (or audio-snap method) are clips that are 8 bars long.  Any shorter or longer and the clip changes length before i ever change the tempo - sometimes a little and sometimes a lot.  Does this make any sense?
     
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    Beepster
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 19:46:26 (permalink)
    I'm stumped. Are they in a slection group or all in the same track? Maybe that is forcing them to take up the properties of your 8 bar clip.
     
    Weird stuff.
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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 20:54:07 (permalink)
    A little progress:  When i select the bass clip, which is the entire length of the tune, and make sure it starts and ends at measure lines, all i need to do is go to the clips/groove clips inspector and check 'stretch' and it works fine for the bass track.
     
    But the guitar track is different.  It has a bunch of clips stuck together.  It doesn't stretch with tempo changes, whether i bounce to clips first or not, and something else is weird - i can't crop the end clip to exactly a measure - it refuses to go to the end of a measure and instead goes just before or after.  Same for after i bounce to clips - it won't let me crop to the end of the measure... 
     
     
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    tenfoot
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 21:59:23 (permalink)
    On the tracks that have many small clips try bouncing them to a new single track first. Select all of the clips on a track then use the 'bounce to track' command, selecting tracks as the source in the popup dialogue. Then try audiosnapping the new single clip track.

    Bruce.
     
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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/07 23:00:04 (permalink)
    tenfoot
    On the tracks that have many small clips try bouncing them to a new single track first. Select all of the clips on a track then use the 'bounce to track' command, selecting tracks as the source in the popup dialogue. Then try audios napping the new single clip track.




     
    I Thought that was the answer too, but i get the same result - no stretching, even after mixing the guitar clips down.  Although i am doing the stretching in the bass clip (which does work) by simply going to the properties pane and selecting 'groove clip' and then checking 'stretch to tempo'.  so i am trying the same thing on the guitar track.
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    tenfoot
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 01:25:54 (permalink)
    QuadCore
     
    .  Same for after i bounce to clips - it won't let me crop to the end of the measure... 
     
     


    Just to be clear Quadcore - did you 'bounce to clip' as you said or 'bounce to track'? They are very different.

    Bruce.
     
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 01:47:13 (permalink)
    As I mentioned earlier, in order to get correct results form Groove clip looping, you need to start by making sure the clip starts and ends on or very near a beat, and if it changes length by more than a beat, you need to check the Beats in Clip value in the Groove Clip section of the Clips tab in the Track Inspector, and set it to the correct value.
     
    Enabling Clip Follows Project in the Audiosnap Palette should not immediately change the length of the clip unless the mode is something other than Autostretch, even if the tempo is not matched to the project, and no matter where the clips start and end or how long they are.
     
    At this point, it might be helpful to know what's in the project, and how it was created. Is this all audio that you recorded into the project to a click? Or was it imported with or without matching the existing project tempo?
     
    Regarding the snap problems, make sure the To/By switch in the Global snap module is set to To, and disable snap to Landmarks and Zerocrossings.
    post edited by brundlefly - 2015/05/08 01:57:03

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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 03:46:21 (permalink)
    I'm with Brundlefly, Grooveclipping is the wrong (or way more complicated/involved) way of doing this. Using AudioSnap you can do it in just a handful of steps. Though for best audio quality you should bounce to clips which takes a little while.
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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 04:47:23 (permalink)
    tenfoot
    QuadCore
     
    .  Same for after i bounce to clips - it won't let me crop to the end of the measure... 
     
     


    Just to be clear Quadcore - did you 'bounce to clip' as you said or 'bounce to track'? They are very different.




    Yes, thanks tenfoot, i bounced to track - still had the same problem.
    #27
    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 04:54:28 (permalink)
    brundlefly
    As I mentioned earlier, in order to get correct results form Groove clip looping, you need to start by making sure the clip starts and ends on or very near a beat, and if it changes length by more than a beat, you need to check the Beats in Clip value in the Groove Clip section of the Clips tab in the Track Inspector, and set it to the correct value.
     
    Enabling Clip Follows Project in the Audiosnap Palette should not immediately change the length of the clip unless the mode is something other than Autostretch, even if the tempo is not matched to the project, and no matter where the clips start and end or how long they are.
     
    At this point, it might be helpful to know what's in the project, and how it was created. Is this all audio that you recorded into the project to a click? Or was it imported with or without matching the existing project tempo?
     
    Regarding the snap problems, make sure the To/By switch in the Global snap module is set to To, and disable snap to Landmarks and Zerocrossings.




    Thanks, brundelfly.  It has a mix of audio and midi, all recorded to a click at the original tempo, to click reference or quantized midi drums.  I also made sure the 'to/by' was set to 'to' when cropping.
    #28
    brundlefly
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 11:23:23 (permalink)
    All I can tell you is that Groove Clip Looping is almost certainly going to be difficult to use in this way, and Audiosnap should be a breeze.
     
    Do have the old Unified Tribe - Guilty demo project (from X1, IIRC)? It's all audio, and has a ton of variably sized vocal clips that don't all start and end on beats. As a sanity check, and to see for yourself how this all works, I would suggest you open up that project and execute the steps I described in post #13. I guarantee you will end up with all tracks playing back perfectly in sync and sounding pretty good.
     
    Then try it with Groove Clip Looping. First, you'll will have to OK the warning dialogue about hidden material being discarded about 100 times - once for each clip - and the result will be a timing disaster, especially for the vocal tracks.

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    QuadCore
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    Re: Change tempo of audio clip without changing pitch... 2015/05/08 14:41:32 (permalink)
    Post #13.  Ok, got it.  will try that out.  Thanks, brundlefly.
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