Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal?

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kenk
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2006/12/03 01:50:51 (permalink)

Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal?

Does anyone know if the default value for the "Pitch Follow" knob in the formant control of V-Vocal can be changed? I've heard that it should be set to "0" to avoid artifacts and unnatural sounding vocals, however it is defaulted to "100" and is a pain to constantly change every time the effect is used. Thanks in advance...
peace,
ken k

Ken K
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#1

18 Replies Related Threads

    tparker24
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 02:05:26 (permalink)
    I had the same problem. I futzed around a bit and finally figured out a (slightly cumbersome) way to get "Pitch Follow" to default to 0. Here's the recipe:

    1) First, make a backup copy of the file C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared Dxi\Vvocal\Skin\VVocal.INI

    2) Then edit the original VVocal.INI file, using your favorite text editor. (The file is nicely formatted, but the lines can be a bit long).

    3) Starting at line 130 you'll see a section "Display 8 ( Formant Control )". There are 3 values (on 2 lines) that need to be changed. (I changed them all from 100 to 0):

    a) Ctrl181 3rd value (Value if you double click in the "PITCH FOLLOW" graphic dial center)

    b) Ctrl181 17th value (Initial value for the graphic dial)

    c) Ctrl183 17th value (The critical Initial value; this will be displayed in the box below the dial)

    Use at your own risk ... but works great for me.

    I imagine similar tweaks could be made for some of the other V-Vocal settings, but I didn't test them.

    - Tom
    #2
    kenk
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 03:56:01 (permalink)
    tom...
    this rocks! i won't ask how you figured this out, but it works!! this will save significant time in the workflow! thanks a million!
    peace,
    ken

    Ken K
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    #3
    moniker
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 13:24:03 (permalink)
    Tom, at last! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    The necessity of resetting that value on every instance of V-vocal is the most tiresome, time consuming and stupid piece of gui I've ever seen.

    Well done!

    All the best,
    #4
    losguy
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 13:54:54 (permalink)
    Nice one! I'm a notorious fan of low-level tweaks .

    For this, kenk, you get a hat-tip fom the losguy.

    ..\D

    P.S. How the heck did you figure this out?
    #5
    kenk
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 14:19:06 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: losguy

    Nice one! I'm a notorious fan of low-level tweaks .

    For this, kenk, you get a hat-tip fom the losguy.

    ..\D

    P.S. How the heck did you figure this out?

    All credit to TOM -- tparker24 is the MAN!! i was just a frustrated user. :-)

    peace,
    ken

    Ken K
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    Intel Q6600::DP35DPM mobo::2Gb RAM::Radeon 1550::MOTU828 mk II::Sonar 7PE
    #6
    tparker24
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 14:50:24 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: losguy
    P.S. How the heck did you figure this out?

    Persistence, programming experience, and luck! I had started getting into V-Vocal, especially after reading Scott Garrigus' article (at http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/article.asp?ID=50 ) in which he recommended setting Pitch Follow to 0. I soon got tired of doing this manually each time, and so I snooped around in the Vvocal directory, hoping to find an .ini file or something. I did find a .ini in the unpromising Skin directory, and played around with it a bit, but made no headway. A few months later, I gave it another go. That .ini file is nicely formatted, which helped greatly. I found the Formant Control section and focused on that. I found several values of 100 there, and through experimentation and trial & error I started making some headway. I would change one of the 100's and see what effect it had. Finally, I determined the 3 relevant values and what they controlled. My technique seems to work in practice, without any bad effects (I hope). That's about it. It would be nice if they provided a simpler method for adjusting the defaults, but this clumsy method seems to work ok for now. - Tom

    post edited by tparker24 - 2006/12/03 15:08:32
    #7
    kenk
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 15:08:10 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tparker24
    Persistence, programming experience, and luck!

    ha... standard hacking techniques!


    It would be nice if they provided a simpler method for adjusting the defaults, but this clumsy method seems to work ok for now. - Tom

    what is weird is the other controls stick when you change them! clumsy is having to change the damn thing every time!!

    again, kudos man.
    ken

    Ken K
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    #8
    losguy
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 15:43:22 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tparker24
    Persistence, programming experience, and luck! I had started getting into V-Vocal, especially after reading Scott Garrigus' article (at http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/article.asp?ID=50 ) in which he recommended setting Pitch Follow to 0.

    Very well done. A hat-tip fom the losguy to you, then, but still also to kenk for spreading the word so that I could find this!

    Regarding Pitch Follow = 0, yes, this is a great setting, but in some cases with some singers /vowels it can sound more natural to have it at low-to-mid values. This is because some singers change their formants with pitch more than others, but only at certain times. You can tell that you need to move the Formant control back up, if the tone sounds to dull or too bright after correcting upward or downward, respectively. Season to taste...
    #9
    losguy
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/03 15:44:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: kenk
    what is weird is the other controls stick when you change them! clumsy is having to change the damn thing every time!!

    That is weird. The Formant control should definitely be designed to remember its last setting.
    post edited by losguy - 2006/12/03 16:02:53
    #10
    corrupted
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2006/12/04 10:04:03 (permalink)
    Tom,
    Thanks so much!!! I thought I was crazy... it seemed like that thing shouldn't have been stuck at 100, but it always was...

    I can't wait to try this one, it'll save me tons of time!
    #11
    oldsneakers
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2007/03/18 18:27:57 (permalink)
    Woah, this belongs in some kind of hacker's hall of fame. Awesome. Just thought I would bump it in case anyone missed this gem. Working as advertised for me. Thanks Tom
    #12
    pjfarr
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2007/08/07 10:14:36 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: oldsneakers

    Woah, this belongs in some kind of hacker's hall of fame. Awesome. Just thought I would bump it in case anyone missed this gem. Working as advertised for me. Thanks Tom


    Ditto!
    #13
    bitman
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2007/09/26 23:04:27 (permalink)
    Oh cool thanks!
    #14
    LKane
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2008/03/25 12:10:38 (permalink)
    worthy of another bump-although 100% seems to work better for me...
    #15
    corrupted
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2008/03/25 12:13:00 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: LKane

    worthy of another bump-although 100% seems to work better for me...

    CERTAINLY worthy of a bump. I copied this method to a text file so I wouldn't have to search for it every time I upgraded...

    But seriously? At 100% it doesn't sound strange to you?
    #16
    LKane
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2008/03/25 12:25:16 (permalink)
    When I use v-vocal it is to move a voice pitch maybe 30 cents (1 cent= 1/100th of a semitone you probably know that but many dont) When I first read this post I immediately tried the 0 formant and it seemed like the upper harmonics were being removed in the corrected version. I would love to learn more so please feel free to expound.(honestly)
    #17
    losguy
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    RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2008/03/25 13:26:55 (permalink)
    Unfirtunately, there is no panacea here. The degree of formant tracking that will sound "natural" for a particular singer will depend squarely upon how that singer tracks their own formants. The extreme case is the operatic singer, who spends years training themselves to line up their formants for every pitch that they sing. The good ones will even be able to move their formants relative to their pitch (or vice versa) for artistic expression. But even so, every singer is different. Even the same singer may do it differently on a different song, or a different day.

    So, the formant-tracking setting should match the singer's own formant tracking. But figuring out the signer's amount of natural tracking is still something that requires your ear. So, season to taste!
    #18
    drumr
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    Re: RE: Changing the default value of formant control in V-Vocal? 2011/03/09 06:51:05 (permalink)
    bump
    #19
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