daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Channel Tools problem
I been mixing a live album (14 songs) and Channel Tools is making some kind of problems with my audio card, simply the plug from been working after save and close the project and later open it, show in the bus or audio channel a heavy audio signal all the way to the top of the meter, no sound from the card, the other tracks are working just I can hear anything, after some of the same I just erase from the project the audio plugs in the bus or track with the colapsed signal and those tracks are using Channel Tools that seem that it's not working, I been working with this computer for 3 long years without a problem and any other plug is working fine, anyone know how to reset just channel tools??? I'm finish mixing and all the projects have the same problem, any advice???? thanks.
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/14 20:16:00
(permalink)
those tracks are using Channel Tools Instability issues aside, it seems to me you're going to get very unpredictable results using Channel Tools as a track plug-in. For it to work as designed, I think you need to be getting 100% wet signal out of it, and that means putting it on a bus... unless I'm mistaken...?
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/14 21:07:02
(permalink)
I used to wide a guitar track mono but cause the prob, I remove it and was used only in a bus, doing the same thing, at this time I don't have any CT on a track just in a Bus and is doing the same.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/14 23:51:31
(permalink)
I use the Channel Tools plug a LOT. It's because some of my favorite synth patches are stereo, and CT lets me properly pan a stereo track. So yeh, it's fine on individual tracks. I have projects with as many as 8 or 10 instances. And I've never seen a problem like the one described by the OP. I can't even imagine how the CT plug could mess with one's sound card. It sounds to me like a feedback loop. I'd check to make sure the card's output isn't being fed back. It's not a Soundblaster, is it?
post edited by bitflipper - 2009/09/14 23:55:19
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
Bob Oister
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2766
- Joined: 2008/01/10 00:34:27
- Location: Scranton, Pennsylvania USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/15 00:58:19
(permalink)
Yeah, unfortunately same problem here, and quite a few forum users have had it. I really loved Channel Tools but had to switch back to Flux Stereo Tool because it seemed like at some mysterious, random point, sometimes at 5, sometimes at 7, sometimes at 8 or 10 instances, a corruption would occur only after closing and reopening the project. After reopening the project, hitting the play button would instantly peg the cpu meters and the audio engine would slam to a stop. The project would only play again after reopening in safe mode and deleting all instances of the Channel Tools plugin. Here are a couple other threads about the same problem: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1519589&high=channel+tools http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1666160&high=channel+tools I hope it gets fixed for 8.5, I really loved the plugin when it worked, I just never knew when this intermittent thing would occur. Bob
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/15 01:14:45
(permalink)
Bob Oister
Yeah, unfortunately same problem here, and quite a few forum users have had it.
I really loved Channel Tools but had to switch back to Flux Stereo Tool because it seemed like at some mysterious, random point, sometimes at 5, sometimes at 7, sometimes at 8 or 10 instances, a corruption would occur only after closing and reopening the project. After reopening the project, hitting the play button would instantly peg the cpu meters and the audio engine would slam to a stop. The project would only play again after reopening in safe mode and deleting all instances of the Channel Tools plugin.
Here are a couple other threads about the same problem:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1519589&high=channel+tools
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1666160&high=channel+tools
I hope it gets fixed for 8.5, I really loved the plugin when it worked, I just never knew when this intermittent thing would occur.
Bob
Thanks for the info, I'll tray the flux stereo tool that you mention...thanks.
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/15 01:16:02
(permalink)
bitflipper
I use the Channel Tools plug a LOT. It's because some of my favorite synth patches are stereo, and CT lets me properly pan a stereo track. So yeh, it's fine on individual tracks. I have projects with as many as 8 or 10 instances. And I've never seen a problem like the one described by the OP.
I can't even imagine how the CT plug could mess with one's sound card. It sounds to me like a feedback loop. I'd check to make sure the card's output isn't being fed back.
It's not a Soundblaster, is it?
Nop. it's a FF800... but it's for sure the plug.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/15 11:56:10
(permalink)
Interesting. It does indeed sound like a bug in the Channel Tools plugin. I guess I've just been lucky!
Daniel, you are at 8.3.1, right?
Well, there are other tools you can use. Prior to S8, I used a free plugin called Stereoid Bouncer, which not only lets you pan each side independently, it has separate tone and overdrive controls for each channel. Unfortunately, it also crashed SONAR on several occasions, so I was glad to replace it when the CT plug came along.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 01:43:06
(permalink)
bitflipper
Interesting. It does indeed sound like a bug in the Channel Tools plugin. I guess I've just been lucky!
Daniel, you are at 8.3.1, right?
Well, there are other tools you can use. Prior to S8, I used a free plugin called Stereoid Bouncer, which not only lets you pan each side independently, it has separate tone and overdrive controls for each channel. Unfortunately, it also crashed SONAR on several occasions, so I was glad to replace it when the CT plug came along.
Well... I didn't update sonar 8 , I'm still using what installed from the DVD content, I had to remix all the songs (14), no more Channel Tools for now, ( this week I'll take the 8.5 with true pianos) and that may fix the problem with the plug ( it's a bug ) thanks for tips about the Steroid bouncer.
|
liberty
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 111
- Joined: 2004/07/14 13:00:05
- Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 01:51:51
(permalink)
In my case, when i open a project with channel tools and press play have a motorboat sound, if delete this plugins from tracks and press undo the problem disapear
Sonar X2a Producer, IntelQ6600, 4GB ram, RME HDSP9652, and AMD Phenom X6 1100T, 16 GB Ram, Windows 7 64, 3x Behringer ADA8000, BCF-2000etc...
|
MatsonMusicBox
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 879
- Joined: 2008/07/09 10:56:31
- Location: Hanover, PA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 09:17:03
(permalink)
yep - lot's of problems with channel tools - I hate that it does, because it is a COOL plug and I can't quite get all the same Stuff from Waves S1. But I have multiple projects that exhibit various of the above-described behaviors because of it. I'm just about to say "just can't use it" until they get this fixed. I'm also using an FF800 - saw some of the other posters too - wonder if it somehow just doesn't play well with RME?
post edited by MatsonMusicBox - 2009/09/16 09:18:37
|
panup
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2538
- Joined: 2006/05/23 09:34:35
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 09:27:51
(permalink)
I have FF800 with 8.3.1 PW and I have never had any problems with Channel Tools.
I use several instances in all projects but never over 10.
Occasional motorboating and audio engine dropouts happen but they could be caused by any plugin.
Maybe it's not RME related, just a rarely seen bug in plugin's code.
|
MatsonMusicBox
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 879
- Joined: 2008/07/09 10:56:31
- Location: Hanover, PA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 09:33:02
(permalink)
panup
I have FF800 with 8.3.1 PW and I have never had any problems with Channel Tools.
I use several instances in all projects but never over 10.
Occasional motorboating and audio engine dropouts happen but they could be caused by any plugin.
Maybe it's not RME related, just a rarely seen bug in plugin's code.
Maybe not RME, but it's not "rare" - it eventually happens in most projects that have CT in them for me, and usually with only a few instances open. I don't have any similar problem with any other plug-in. Maybe it's related to some combination of plugs I often use this "after" the Waves SSL and JJP stuff.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 10:27:27
(permalink)
He means "rare" as in most users don't see it. It may not be rare at all for you specifically! That in itself may provide a clue, as it would seem to be machine-specific. I use the CT plug extensively and have never had an issue. The key to this puzzle is what's different between your environment and mine.
I don't use Waves plugins. I am on XP. I have a MOTU 828MkII interface. I am running 32-bit SONAR. I use ASIO. Any of these could be the critical difference.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
MatsonMusicBox
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 879
- Joined: 2008/07/09 10:56:31
- Location: Hanover, PA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 11:04:40
(permalink)
bitflipper
He means "rare" as in most users don't see it. It may not be rare at all for you specifically! That in itself may provide a clue, as it would seem to be machine-specific. I use the CT plug extensively and have never had an issue. The key to this puzzle is what's different between your environment and mine.
I don't use Waves plugins. I am on XP. I have a MOTU 828MkII interface. I am running 32-bit SONAR. I use ASIO. Any of these could be the critical difference.
Sure .... I Have an ADK Quad Core specially built and "tuned" for audio/SONAR - XP, 4G, 1T+ of drive space, RME FF800, ASIO. One thing I've wondered about for this - and intermittent other things that "some people never have" is the higher sample rate I work at - typically 88.2
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 11:13:06
(permalink)
I haven't had this with the CT plug in yet, but I guess I've only ever used about 2/3 instances of it.
Prior to that, for stereo widening/narrowing I was using the Sonnitus Phase plug which does a very similar thing, but with no MS options.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 12:10:41
(permalink)
One thing I've wondered about for this - and intermittent other things that "some people never have" is the higher sample rate I work at - typically 88.2 A possibility. I always work at 44.1Khz.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
panup
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2538
- Joined: 2006/05/23 09:34:35
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 13:11:14
(permalink)
Do the Channel Tools work OK if there are no other plugins in the project? Any difference if they're in tracks or buses? 64 bit engine enabled? FF800 buffer size?
My setup: XP SP2, Asus P5B Deluxe, 2 GB, 2 x FF800 @ 44.1 kHz, buffer 512.
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 19:23:44
(permalink)
panup
Do the Channel Tools work OK if there are no other plugins in the project? Any difference if they're in tracks or buses? 64 bit engine enabled? FF800 buffer size?
My setup: XP SP2, Asus P5B Deluxe, 2 GB, 2 x FF800 @ 44.1 kHz, buffer 512.
Do the Channel Tools work OK if there are no other plugins in the project? NO Any difference if they're in tracks or buses? 64 bit engine enabled? NO 64 bit engine enabled? YES (Sonar 64 Bits clean install ) FF800 buffer size? 1024 My setup: PT6 Deluxe, W7, 12GB Ram,GForce GTX 260, FF800 @24/44.1 Buffer 1024 Sonar 8 64b. Now just waiting to install 8.5 and hope works.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/16 20:27:08
(permalink)
Now just waiting to install 8.5 and hope works. Just so you're not too disappointed: no, it will not be fixed in 8.5. I can predict that with confidence because the problem isn't within SONARPDR.EXE. It's more likely within the plugin itself, and the problem requires some currently-unknown set of specific circumstances to manifest itself. Those circumstances are going to be elusive simply because most users do not experience these problems. Also, I know this because the Channel Tools plugin was not updated in 8.5. Just a thought: is everyone who's experienced these problems running 64-bit SONAR and/or Vista?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 06:44:09
(permalink)
rhythminmind
Just realized this is the cullprit creating what sounds like a DC offset pop everytime I hit play with a current mix i'm working on. Also causing silent bus/track issues. I'm saying so long to channel tools until fixed.
I'm running windows 7 32bit "official release" & Sonar 8.5.1
Well, no channel tools for now here too... 
post edited by daniel24672 - 2009/09/21 07:11:11
|
mrfitz
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 216
- Joined: 2006/08/20 14:06:01
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 07:33:26
(permalink)
bitflipper
Just a thought: is everyone who's experienced these problems running 64-bit SONAR and/or Vista?
32bit sonar on vista 32 asio, e-mu
Sonar X1c pe x64 Sonar VS-100 phenom 9600 x4 Win 7 x64 Home Prem 4 gigabytes ram a homebrew champ and a telecaster
|
MatsonMusicBox
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 879
- Joined: 2008/07/09 10:56:31
- Location: Hanover, PA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 09:03:31
(permalink)
bitflipper
Just a thought: is everyone who's experienced these problems running 64-bit SONAR and/or Vista?
Nope - I'm 32 bit XP
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 11:35:14
(permalink)
OK, good - it doesn't appear to be a 64-bit or Vista problem, which means I can try to duplicate it. Unfortunately, no other commonality jumps out, either.
The key may be to determine what those who experience the problem have in common versus those like myself who do not see the problem.
It's not Vista, not 64-bit SONAR. It doesn't seem to matter what other plugins are in the chain. Although it seems an unlikely suspect, could the FF800 in fact be the common thread?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
mrfitz
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 216
- Joined: 2006/08/20 14:06:01
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 13:13:57
(permalink)
bitflipper
Although it seems an unlikely suspect, could the FF800 in fact be the common thread?
Nope, E-Mu 0404pci asio.
Sonar X1c pe x64 Sonar VS-100 phenom 9600 x4 Win 7 x64 Home Prem 4 gigabytes ram a homebrew champ and a telecaster
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/21 18:47:50
(permalink)
bitflipper
It's not Vista, not 64-bit SONAR. It doesn't seem to matter what other plugins are in the chain. Although it seems an unlikely suspect, could the FF800 in fact be the common thread?
I have the same problem with the pc that I'm using for midi work, the channel tool plugin just not work, in this case the audio card is a M-audio 1814, at this time, I'm thinking in a fresh install from the OS to the audio app, for now I'm looking for a stereo tool to work.
|
daniel24672
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 450
- Joined: 2005/07/19 22:06:52
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/23 16:28:02
(permalink)
Thanks man, I'll try it for sure, do you enconde it ????,sound interesting, thanks again.
|
panup
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2538
- Joined: 2006/05/23 09:34:35
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/23 18:03:58
(permalink)
Could somebody post an example project with minimum content that causes Channel Tools crash? Or step by step instructions how to reproduce it?
Problem is probably not related to
- Sonar 32/64 bit
- Fireface 800
- Vista / XP
How about:
- Audio Engine 64 bit during playback?
- Sample rate specific?
- Does it crash after working with the project or immediately it's opened?
- Does it crash if Channel Tools is inserted and then project is exported offline?
- Can Channel Tools track be frozen correctly?
- Is the track in stereo or mono mode?
- Does CT crash if delay functions are disabled; or does it crash with certain parameter combinations only?
---
My working system:
- Windows XP SP2, 32 bit, Asus P5B Deluxe, Q6600, 2 GB
- Fireface 800, ASIO, buffer 512
- AUD.INI 99.9% default
- 44.1 & 48 kHz
- 24 bit projects
- 64 bit audio engine OFF
- Perfect functioning in over 200 different projects containing average 5 Channel Tools each.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/23 20:17:53
(permalink)
Could somebody post an example project with minimum content that causes Channel Tools crash? I've tried, no luck. Sadly, that pesky buggar works exactly as advertised 100% of the time - for me. XP32, S8.5, MOTU 828MkII, ASIO, 44.1/24.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
lorneyb2
Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1667
- Joined: 2007/04/26 04:02:10
- Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:Channel Tools problem
2009/09/23 20:44:21
(permalink)
I had what seems to be a similar issue that was caused when I used the phase button on a doubled bass track with channel strip on the bus. The work around I used was to return the phase to its normal and nudge the track and then the channel strip worked without problems and crackles and I got the effect I was looking for.
|