Chords for a solo......

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triscuit
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2005/12/06 01:12:29 (permalink)

Chords for a solo......

I'm considering putting a piano/synth solo into my next song. Anyone have any suggestions about what chords might be nice to solo over?

Roman numerals would be nice you know IV, I, V ect.......but jazz symbols would work, but I will just have to transpose into the key that I am working in so make sure you indicate what key you’re working in.
post edited by triscuit - 2005/12/06 01:14:30
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    grandpa mojo
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 01:42:27 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: triscuit

    I'm considering putting a piano/synth solo into my next song. Anyone have any suggestions about what chords might be nice to solo over?

    Roman numerals would be nice you know IV, I, V ect.......but jazz symbols would work, but I will just have to transpose into the key that I am working in so make sure you indicate what key you’re working in.


    Key:
    F#

    Changes:
    :: ii / V / I / I
    :: iii / IV / vi / VII(9)
    :: ii / V#7 / III / VII(7,9,#13)
    :: Neopolitan 6th / "Fright Night" diminished / dual carbs on a '72 MG Midget tuned by putting a length of tubing to the ear...
    :: tension / release / tension / release / tension / release... etc. etc. etc. (courtesy of John McNeil - NY jazz trumpeter)



    (sorry, couldn't help myself...)

    - Grandpa Mojo
    www.grandpamojo.com
    #2
    wgcabp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 08:41:45 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: triscuit

    I'm considering putting a piano/synth solo into my next song. Anyone have any suggestions about what chords might be nice to solo over?

    Roman numerals would be nice you know IV, I, V ect.......but jazz symbols would work, but I will just have to transpose into the key that I am working in so make sure you indicate what key you’re working in.


    Tristan,

    Mojo was, (Good God I hope), messing with you...

    Your question is a bit too broad to actually give you a good answer. Here's a thought: Got a "Fake Book"?? Do you know what I'm talking about? If you don't, one of the jazz players where you go to school will know what I mean. Grab one, borrow it, look at some old standard tunes. Find a couple with progressions that you like and study them. Most all of these tunes are built around standard jazz progressions that will give you some ideas. Screw around with them some, transpose them into your key, modify them to suit your tune. Do whatever you like. But that is probably the best way for you to find some good progressions to start with. It would be a bit difficult for any of us to just spit out some progressions on paper that you would like, best you look for them yourself.

    WC
    #3
    gourdjopy
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 08:58:00 (permalink)
    will's got a good suggestion. here's a great site to start: http://www.8notes.com/fsm/.

    just mess around with some of the chord sheets that are there and you're sure to find some stuff you'll like. there really is no shortcut--you just have to experiment for hours listening to chord progressions and then once you find one, spend hours messing with that until it feels natural and you can express yourself.
    #4
    wrench45us
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 09:30:52 (permalink)


    and once you find a chord progression you really like
    let go of the idea of soloing over it
    what need is there of that?
    there are enough notes in play already

    instead
    layer up some sounds that complement each other
    and bring emphasis to aspects of the chord
    better to imply a solo or lead line and tap into potential energy

    and don't forget to reharmonize by fooling with the bass/root notes


     


    #5
    gourdjopy
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 10:10:06 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wrench45us
    and once you find a chord progression you really like
    let go of the idea of soloing over it
    what need is there of that?
    there are enough notes in play already


    hmm, interesting point. i think i agree-let the solo be the chords and let the chords be the solo. that is really a major theme for me lately. the difference between soloing and playing chords can be eliminated by using voicings to build leads and making melodic choices that emphasize the harmonic movement through the chords.
    #6
    MurderDethKill
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 10:24:47 (permalink)
    I always think of a solo as a conversation, a soliloquy, a lecture, an innuendo, a shooting star highlighting a crystal clear night as it blazes across the sky - before it vanishes forever.

    it's also a good time for the rest of the band to take a cigarette/beer break.

    My site i guess;)
    Monstruousubergeekyhardcorefunkytrancepolkaoptimism Lives!!!
    #7
    grandpa mojo
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 11:45:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wgcabp
    Mojo was, (Good God I hope), messing with you...



    Of COURSE I was!!!

    ...

    This link (via a Google search) is actually pretty good!:

    http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lesson.html

    I'm an old jazz hack - and I may have to reference this myself to give me some new ideas!

    - Grandpa Mojo
    www.grandpamojo.com
    post edited by grandpa mojo - 2005/12/06 13:52:51
    #8
    wrench45us
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 12:46:10 (permalink)

    thanks for that link, grandpa
    that should about set me for the rest of winter
    if not longer


    back on topic of solos
    the explorers were out in the jungle and the drums had been going since their arrival. day on day, night on night till they were driven near mad. then one evening they suddenly stopped. everyone looked about and relaxed. One expressed his gratitude for the return of silence now that the drums had finally stopped. But their guide spoke up and told them it was not a good thing, "Now, the bass solo."



     


    #9
    wgcabp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 12:49:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: MurderDethKill
    I always think of a solo as a conversation, a soliloquy, a lecture, an innuendo, a shooting star highlighting a crystal clear night as it blazes across the sky - before it vanishes forever.

    MDK, you wax so eloquent. Blahblahblah....

    it's also a good time for the rest of the band to take a cigarette/beer break...

    Not if you're the bass player. You gotta keep playing those damned changes over the interminable saxophone solo's 6th chorus whether you like it or not. I have been known to have a cigarette during those times, but only if it's somebody else’s bass.

    Unless of course, it's time for the bass solo, which we all know is the international sign for "...check cell phone for new messages..."

    WC
    #10
    wgcabp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 12:51:31 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wrench45us
    ...But their guide spoke up and told them it was not a good thing, "Now, the bass solo."

    I cannot BELIEVE we both posted bass jokes at the SAME TIME.

    Spooky...

    WC
    #11
    triscuit
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 13:51:11 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wrench45us
    instead
    layer up some sounds that complement each other
    and bring emphasis to aspects of the chord
    better to imply a solo or lead line and tap into potential energy



    You have to admit that soloing is a much different art form then what you're talking about. I just want to be able to do something live. No one wants to listen to a series of ambient chord washes live. You can do that in the comfort of you own home. Maybe a lead line with some filter sweeps, but not just a series of chords with different notes brought out.
    #12
    wrench45us
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 14:35:23 (permalink)
    You have to admit that soloing is a much different art form then what you're talking about. I just want to be able to do something live. No one wants to listen to a series of ambient chord washes live. You can do that in the comfort of you own home. Maybe a lead line with some filter sweeps, but not just a series of chords with different notes brought out.


    well i'm sure Harold Budd and Brian Eno, Glenn Branca and, if we include arped chords forms, Phillip Glass, Terry Riley, and Steve Reich would be interested to know that.


     


    #13
    Digital Aura
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 15:32:41 (permalink)
    WOW...you guys are getting WAAAAY to structured for me. If it has to be written its already too technical. What happened to just playing by ear?
    #14
    fschmierer
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 16:03:08 (permalink)
    Hi Tristan!

    ORIGINAL: triscuit
    You have to admit that soloing is a much different art form then what you're talking about. I just want to be able to do something live. No one wants to listen to a series of ambient chord washes live. You can do that in the comfort of you own home. Maybe a lead line with some filter sweeps, but not just a series of chords with different notes brought out.


    Soloing can either be a fill or a highlight depending on the song. Also can be either rehearsed or improvised. In my experience, usually there is the song, and then what the song needs. If you just want to learn how to play leads or get comfortable with playing leads...a good ole blues pattern works fine...can be as simple as I, IV, V. If you want to record a meaningful lead (part of a musical idea), make your song, and then decide if it wants a lead, where, with what instrument, etc... Since your music tends to be unique, deciding if, where, how, with what, etc... will come from your imagination. Let er rip!

    Fred Schmierer

    My friends call me Pap.
    #15
    MurderDethKill
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 17:18:02 (permalink)
    right now i'm imagining a 12 day solo consisting of only 4 notes....



    I'm Not Kidding....
    post edited by MurderDethKill - 2005/12/06 17:19:46

    My site i guess;)
    Monstruousubergeekyhardcorefunkytrancepolkaoptimism Lives!!!
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    philchetcuti3
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 17:40:13 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: MurderDethKill
    right now i'm imagining a 12 day solo consisting of only 4 notes....
    I'm Not Kidding....


    Ah, I see, I guess your preference is the China White then
    #17
    blipp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 17:44:36 (permalink)
    When i first spotted this thread i though it said "Chords for sale". I thought, blimey people will try and sell anything these days. Must get my eyes tested.
    post edited by blipp - 2005/12/06 18:11:08
    #18
    samhoff
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 18:01:54 (permalink)
    Since no one else seems to want to commit an any chords. . . .

    Louie Louie is always good chords to play over: I, IV, V, IV, I. (Or v minor, actually, but either way works). GGG, CC, DDD, CC, GGG . . . etc. (one sharp)

    Seems when I "invent" new agey style music on the keyboard I keep playing I, vi, IV, V, over and over. Drives me crazy the way I keep falling back to that chord progression (C, Am, F, G, ad nauseum).

    Of course, Pachelbel's is a fun one (off hand I think in key of C it's C, G, Am, Em, F, C, F, G, repeat repeat repeat).

    Now I'll go check out those web sites that were recommended that I'm sure are more informative than my three chord series.

    Once I was lamenting that I get sick of playing the same chords over and over and a friend told me to just find a tune I like and "steal" the chord progression but put a different melody (read "solo") over the top. Never did get around to it . . .

    Sam
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    b rock
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 18:49:48 (permalink)
    Anyone have any suggestions about what chords might be nice to solo over?
    Let me present this from another angle. The solo is the "voice within"; the primary melody.
    Play that first; pouring in heart & soul over an imaginary background. Then provide (or change) the context underneath by adding chord formations.

    Or play like my band does. Everyone solos at once, and calls it counterpoint. <g>
    #20
    gourdjopy
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/06 20:44:24 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: samhoff
    Once I was lamenting that I get sick of playing the same chords over and over and a friend told me to just find a tune I like and "steal" the chord progression but put a different melody (read "solo") over the top.


    i think that pretty much describes everything that dizzy gillespie ever wrote except night in tunisia. 2/3 of charlie parker's stuff is this same principle--take a chord progression and play it over and over until you're modifying it so much that it's not really the same thing anymore.
    #21
    hypolydien
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 00:11:28 (permalink)
    Hi Triscuit,

    I think for what you want grandpa mojo's site is a good place to start.
    In the long run, I am also totally with Will as with the study of Fake Books.
    However, I might have a few other ideas for you.
    It sounds to me that besides wanting to put a solo in your next compsition, you would like to find some easy progressions to start experimenting with the concept of improvisation. That is I think a totally legitimate desire.

    When I teach jazz improv to students, I actually don't even start with any jazz theory. The fact that they are 11 or 12 years old and have very little interest for any form of theory, let alone even reading music also makes it difficult to do that anyway.
    I usually start them the way I did, with what I call Jam improvisation. I have them blow over simple 2 or 3 chords grooves which stay within the same key. This way, I can tell them: just play anything in G major now, you'll see it's gonna fit.
    Before you can even think of mixing theory with improvisation you need to feel comfortable with improvising itself (without any thinking involved).

    I started doing jazz in the 70s during the good old "fusion" or "jazz rock" era.
    In order to keep a driving rock or fink beat going,(also in order to not freak out the rockn'rollers listeners who were getting into this type of music) it was very fashionable back then to use some of those simple 2 or 3 chords grooves for solos. All the Jean-Luc Pontys, George Dukes and Jan Hammers of the time seem to rely on the same ones.
    Bozos like me could pick-up on them, figure what scale or pentatonic to use and jam for hours thinking we were real jazzmen, even though we had very little clue what we were doing. Those were good days...

    Maybe you know these already, but here are some classic ones. I'll put all the examples in C, and can be jammed upon in C major, pentatonics strongly suggested.. Be carefull with high extensions(9,11,13) for voicings on these since some of them might involve some Aeolian and Phrygian scales.

    The i-iv ( Amin7 / Dmin7)
    Good for a rock funk feel. You can add a V7#5#9( E7#5#9) on this one once in a while for a bluesier effect. Amin pentatonic or blues are of course always welcomed.

    The ii-V (Dmin7 / G7)

    Very popular in latin music (Oye Como Va). Also used for funk.

    The I7- IV7 ( D7 / G7) (Could also be explained as II7-V7)

    This one is like a slight variation on the previous one, with a dominant7 on each chord
    I like this one with the boogalow shufflle funk feel, as in Billy Cobham's and Jan Hammer's "Red Baron". This one might require a more extensive use of the blues scale, as the 2 chords aren't actually diatonic. One could always mixolidian both chords, if they change every bar or every 2 bars. However, if they change very 2 beats, that becomes a bit of a headache, and this kind of improv should not involve headaches. You could also just play in C major, the F natural will just sound bluesy on the D7

    The ii -iii ( Dmin7 / E min7)

    This one will also sound nice with 7sus4 chords instead of the min7 chords. Carefull, the 2nd chord is phrygian, will involve a b9. Don't worry though if you hit a F natural that doesn't sound too good you're probably playing it over the Emin7 chord, just resolve it to the E and you'll sound like you know what you're doing.

    The VImaj7b5 - iii7su4 (Fmaj7b5 / E7sus4)

    Can even be used in combination with the previous progression. Same warning about the E chord, will be phrygian.

    The iim6\9 - iv (Dmin6\9 / Amin9)

    Theoritically, could be used with the 1st chord as a min7, but I find it a little lame. Jean-Luc Ponty as a famous one with this progression ("Mirage from the "Enigmatic Ocean" album). Then again, Jean-Luc Ponty has a song( if not 2 or 3) using every single one of these examples.

    The i - V7(b9) (Amin / E7)
    Back to latin here. Both the A harmonic scale and the A blues will provide with hours of though free improv here.
    Santana had a big hit a couple years ago in a collab with some young singer( don't know his name, oh well) using this one. They were at the grammys and stuff... now I hear them at the grocery store once in a while. Simple chords can go a long way.


    The bVI - bVII - i (F / G / Amin)

    This one is well at ease with rockers and jazzmen alike, depending on which variation of it you use.
    Of course, Stairway to Heaven is the most famous example, Amin / G / F / F G /.
    Using it in it's ascending only form can provide a nice groove: F / G / Amin.
    or skip the bVII one way or the other: The rockers will appreciate Amin / F . The jazzmen might prefer Fmaj7 / Amin7.

    Dmin7 / Ebmaj7

    Now this one is for the adventurous type (well it was for the average aspiring jazz bozo of the 70s). You will need to change scales between the 2 chords.
    Go D dorian on the Dmin7 chord and Eb lydian on the Ebmaj7 chord, you will have to change the E and the B to an Eb and a Bb on the 2nd chord. Or for a headache free approach, go Dmin pentatonic or blues scale on both chords. This way you will remain in safe territory throughout. (Jean-Luc Ponty again, "Is Once Enough" from the "Aurora" album)


    The i - iv - v -bVII

    Of course I couldn't finish this whithout plugging again my favorite progression of all times. The one one that took the disco dance music world by storm in the late 70s, just as the sonata form swept through classical music in the late 1700s. (I know I've used that line before, but I couldn't help it).

    This one is more likly to be played in Bmin, C min, or Dmin, to get that big fat bass on the 2nd chord, So I will spell it in Bmin (shoulb be preferably performed with the classic octave dreddle in the left hand):

    Bmin7 / " / Emin7 / F#min A /


    Aahhh!!


    Anyway, have fun Triscuit. I hope this is of any help to you.






    post edited by hypolydien - 2005/12/07 07:50:42
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    triscuit
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 01:33:07 (permalink)
    Thanks a bunch hypolydien.

    That guide really got my theory skills running.

    I'll keep all that in mind.

    I have already mapped out my chords for my first improv already, but I'm sure I'll be doing more as my skills improve.

    I went with

    C#7 g#dim C#7 D7 A7 E7 B7 f#min C#7 f#min

    I'm trying to reason out some scales to go on top.

    C#7 sound top notch with harmonic minor(um I think thats the scale, you know f# with an e# or f natural.)

    Right now I just play a lot of A major and F# minor. I try to fit in that D# over the B major chord too.

    I'd like to fit in a whole tone scale but not sure where. I think I'd need some different chords.

    If anyone has any scale suggestions I'd love to hear them.

    Right now my understanding of modes is weak, so spelling of scales would help out a lot.



    #23
    hypolydien
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 10:13:51 (permalink)
    Aïe Aïe Triscuit,

    You didn't pick an easy one. It's full of dominant chords and those offer so many choices. I am willing to try helping you, but I would need to know exactly how many bars(or 1/2 bar) you play each chord, to provide context. It looks like you have severall I7 - V7 movements which suggests blues and therefore blues scales.

    Also, do you by any chance keep the C# in the bass while you play that G#dim, that would make it simply a C#7b9, and not really a chord change.
    #24
    mgarrett010461
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 10:36:20 (permalink)
    When i first spotted this thread i though it said "Chords for sale". I thought, blimey people will try and sell anything these days. Must get my eyes tested.



    That is hillarious!! Thats what I thought too.

    What a great idea!! Maybe we should put out a sample disk of individual chords, audio and midi. Sell each chord for a $0.39 download fee, 12 chords for 3.00.

    We could sell those to support the creation of single note downloads, quarters, eighths
    (cheeper that quarters) etc.

    For midi we could create an mfz extension, example:
    c2q.mfz - note c2 period 1/4 (only $0.39).

    Awsome, 'Share the note' parties at peoples houses enroll a new seller, get the next 10 notes free.

    OK I have amused myself long enough back to work!!
    post edited by mgarrett010461 - 2005/12/07 11:00:40
    #25
    grandpa mojo
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 11:47:16 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: gourdjopy
    i think that pretty much describes everything that dizzy gillespie ever wrote except night in tunisia. 2/3 of charlie parker's stuff is this same principle--take a chord progression and play it over and over until you're modifying it so much that it's not really the same thing anymore.


    Jack Peterson (my jazz improv teacher at North Texas) always said that he wanted the copyright on ii-V-I. - If he'd gotten it, he would have INDEED been a rich rich man!



    - Grandpa Mojo
    www.grandpamojo.com
    #26
    grandpa mojo
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 11:48:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: triscuit
    C#7 g#dim C#7 D7 A7 E7 B7 f#min C#7 f#min


    DAMN! - that's the "Stevie Wonder" key!



    - Grandpa Mojo
    www.grandpamojo.com
    #27
    wgcabp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 11:57:34 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: grandpa mojo

    ORIGINAL: triscuit
    C#7 g#dim C#7 D7 A7 E7 B7 f#min C#7 f#min


    DAMN! - that's the "Stevie Wonder" key!

    HILARIOUS!!! That what *I* thought too!!

    Mojo....what years were you at NTSU?? Bet I know a dozen people who were there at the same time...

    WC
    #28
    grandpa mojo
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 12:07:39 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: wgcabp
    Mojo....what years were you at NTSU?? Bet I know a dozen people who were there at the same time...


    I was there 1982 to 1983 and then 1984 to 1988 (I went there as a freshman - got my ass kicked musically - went back to my home state, took an in-state scholarship - and practiced practiced PRACTICED my sophomore year in order to come back and succeed... - The "Charlie Parker" story...)

    So, let's see... who did I know there:
    Matt Chamberlain - drums
    Earl Harvin - drums
    Tim Kobza - guitar
    Jeff Coffin - sax
    Tim Lemke - sax
    Paul Croteau - sax
    Mike Dillon - percussion
    T.S. Galloway - bone
    etc. etc. etc.

    I'll be damned if I can remember all their names!

    Did you go to ol' NT?

    - Grandpa Mojo
    www.grandpamojo.com
    #29
    wgcabp
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    RE: Chords for a solo...... 2005/12/07 12:49:57 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: grandpa mojo
    Did you go to ol' NT?

    No, I'm a CCM (Cincinnati) guy. Snobby conservatory classical guy, ya know. But I did a bunch of summer things littered with NTSU guys. Pete DeMeo (drums) and Dave Pietro (sax) are the two I actually keep in touch with. Pietro actually got into the 1:00 as a FRESHMAN, but bowed out cause he couldn't handle the pressure. On your list I've run into Matt, I don't know anybody else. Timewise my guys would've been right in the break where you left for a while. Guess this would've been 83, 84, something like that. I know, I can't remember everybody either. Everytime I run into somebody at a concert or something I have to place them by "...which city was I in then..." before I can remember who they are. Anyway, sorry for the hijack everybody.

    WC
    post edited by wgcabp - 2005/12/07 12:50:59
    #30
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