Helpful ReplyClicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2

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_Angus_
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2013/04/16 11:28:33 (permalink)

Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2

I'm still finding my way with Sonar (X1 Essential) but have been having some fun creating little backing tracks for me to jam along with on my guitar. For this I've been using an internal sound card, an Audiophile 2496. This works fairly well, although I get a the odd stutter and click here and there. Actually, I thought I resolved this the other day, by setting Sonar's priority to maximum (real time) in Windows Task Manager. The problem that I can't solve is when I try to record my guitar through my Line 6 UX2 - the clicking/glitching becomes unbearable when Sonar is running. I have tried the following: disabling antivirus software disconnecting pc from internet making UX2 the default soundcard increasing priorities of UX2 (Podfarm) and Sonar in Task Manger Jedi persuasion/Bene Gesserit voice techniques I noticed this afternoon, that if I played a sustained note, the glitching sound (bit like radio interference) was pulsing in very regularly at approximately 1 second intervals. Does this suggest anything? That's about it - Task manager suggests nothing is hogging resources. I would really appreciate some advice, so I can get stuck into Sonar and hopefully start making some music. Thanks. I'm running XP SP3 with an AMD Phenom II x4 3.4 GHz with 4 GB memory.

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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/16 11:38:28 (permalink)

What is your sample buffer set at in SONAR? It may be to low and that may be causing drop outs.


best regards,
mike





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_Angus_
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/16 11:54:12 (permalink)
  If I understand correctly, The DMA buffer size on both the UX2 and Audiophile is set to 512k. The panel for the UX2 in control panel says the Sample rate converter (tone direct and USB audio streaming is set at the default, which is one click up from "very small". How does that sound? (how do I format my posts, despite my best efforts they appear as a solid block of text - apologies).

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_Angus_
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/17 14:49:29 (permalink)
  Playing around with it today, and the UX2 won't even play back an .mp3 without a bunch of cracking. The same mp3 plays fine on my internal card. :-/

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joeb1cannoli
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/17 15:37:35 (permalink)
 I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like it may be a clock issue.
 When you use the UX2 do you have it set as the playback and record timing master in Sonar?

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_Angus_
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/17 17:12:01 (permalink)
  Yes, I think so. I had a fiddle around with those settings but there didn't seem to be much option.

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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/17 19:41:57 (permalink)
Hi there Angus

Have you tried disabling your inbuilt soundcard completely, and letting your UX2 handle all your audio? On my system, this is the only way I can get my UX2 to play nice.

What drivers are you using with your UX2? Have you tried switching the driver mode your UX2 is operating under?

When you have SONAR open, are you trying to record your guitar directly from the standalone version of POD Farm, or are you inserting the VST version of POD Farm into an FX Bin (and monitoring the sound with Input Echo switched on)?

Can you play your guitar OK in the standalone version of POD Farm when you're not running SONAR?

Have you run Line 6 Monkey and ensured you have the latest drivers for your POD Studio, and the latest version of POD Farm/Gearbox? These are the latest versions of everything:
 

 
 
 
 
 
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2013/04/17 19:50:49

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_Angus_
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/18 08:10:26 (permalink)
SteveStrummerUK


Hi there Angus

Have you tried disabling your inbuilt soundcard completely, and letting your UX2 handle all your audio? On my system, this is the only way I can get my UX2 to play nice.

What drivers are you using with your UX2? Have you tried switching the driver mode your UX2 is operating under?

When you have SONAR open, are you trying to record your guitar directly from the standalone version of POD Farm, or are you inserting the VST version of POD Farm into an FX Bin (and monitoring the sound with Input Echo switched on)?

Can you play your guitar OK in the standalone version of POD Farm when you're not running SONAR?

Have you run Line 6 Monkey and ensured you have the latest drivers for your POD Studio, and the latest version of POD Farm/Gearbox? These are the latest versions of everything:
 

 
  Thanks for the reply. I'll deal with the points you raised in sequence.
 
  Disabling the other soundcards completely? Sounds like a good idea, but can one do that in software? BTW I have tried making the UX2 the default soundcard but with no benefit.
 
I'm using the UX2 ASIO drivers that come with it, I tried ASIO4all but it was no better.
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean here - I've not succeeded in getting the Pod Farm VST to be accessible from Sonar, I'm not clear if that's actually possible, I can see a Pod Farm .dll file but haven't managed to get Sonar to do anything with it... I basically fire up Pod Farm on the pc, plug the guitar into the UX2 and run Sonar. 
 
Its not too bad playing guitar through the UX2 without Sonar. The odd click and crackle but not too much.
 
I re-installed stuff from the Line 6 Monkey a couple of times yesterday. Thanks again.
  
 



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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/18 12:18:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
 
_Angus_
 
Thanks for the reply. I'll deal with the points you raised in sequence. Disabling the other soundcards completely? Sounds like a good idea, but can one do that in software? BTW I have tried making the UX2 the default soundcard but with no benefit.
 
Hi Angus
 
I've disabled the onboard soundcard on all three PCs I've used my UX2 with (XP; Vista; Win7-64) and it's run perfectly. With the XP and Vista machines, there were some conflicts but with my newer Win7 computer, I disabled it anyway before I installed the UX2 drivers.
 
I think in your situation, it might be worth a try - even if it doesn't solve the problem, it's completely reversible.
 
To disable your onboard card, open Control Panel and then click on Device Manager to open it. Click on the arrow next to the Sound, video and game controllers icon to expand it and you should see your Audiophile in the list that opens. Here you can see my onboard Realtek card:
 

 
 
Double click on the name of your card to open its Properties window. When the Properties window opens, select the Drivers tab and then click on the Disable button:
 

 
 
If you receive a message asking you to confirm this action, select Yes.
 
Now, close Device Manager, and if you are prompted to restart your computer, do so.
 
 
I'm using the UX2 ASIO drivers that come with it, I tried ASIO4all but it was no better.
 
 
The ASIO drivers for the UX2 are well written and are purpose-built for audio recording. ASIO4All is just a 'wrapper' used to make cheaper/slower soundcards work a little more efficiently - you certainly don't need it with your UX2 that has its own ASIO drivers.
 
Incidentally, you have to use ASIO drivers with both your UX2 and SONAR for you to be able to record two different sources simultaneously with your UX2 (e.g. Instrument + Mic1; Mic1 + Mic2 etc) - SONAR will 'see' the UX2 in the Input of a track as either UX2 Send 1-2 or UX2 Send 3-4.
 
 
 
I'm not quite sure what you mean here - I've not succeeded in getting the Pod Farm VST to be accessible from Sonar, I'm not clear if that's actually possible, I can see a Pod Farm .dll file but haven't managed to get Sonar to do anything with it...
 
 
Right, I understand. Basically, the POD Farm software comes in two different versions. The standalone version (that you're using) is the version that's accessible just like any other program on your PC. You can run it independently of any other program either from the Start menu or from a shortcut etc.
 
However, Line 6 also supply POD Farm as a series of 'Plug-Ins' which you can use inside your DAW (= Digital Audio Workstation) software (i.e: SONAR in your case) to use to process recorded audio. In the case of SONAR, the plug-ins it can use are in the 'VST' format (you get the option during installation to install different formats).
 
If you've installed the POD Farm VST plug-ins, they (as you have seen) will appear with the filename extension .dll
 
The VSTs you should have are (note that mine are the 64bit versions):
 

 
 
I believe that if you didn't specify a different destination on installation, and you already had SONAR on your PC, they are placed by default inside this folder on your computer:
  • Computer >  OS(C) > Programs > Cakewalk > Vstplugins
 
They should be available to use inside the FX Bin (Effects Bin) of an audio track in SONAR.
 
To see if they're there, right click in the FX Bin of a track and hover the mouse pointer over Audio FX.
 
If you don't see them in the list but they are located in the Cakewalk Vstplugins folder, you might need to run a VST scan.
 
If you placed them in a different folder, you will need to run the VST scanner and add this folder to those that it will scan.
 
 
 
I basically fire up Pod Farm on the pc, plug the guitar into the UX2 and run Sonar. Its not too bad playing guitar through the UX2 without Sonar. The odd click and crackle but not too much. I re-installed stuff from the Line 6 Monkey a couple of times yesterday. Thanks again.
 
Can you record anything from (the standalone version of) POD Farm in SONAR Angus?
 
If not, try following these steps:
  1. Disable your onboard soundcard as above (and make certain that your UX2 is enabled)
  2. Open a new (Blank) project in SONAR and select Edit > Preferences from the menu bar
  3. In the Audio section, click on Playback and Recording
  4. Check to see what is listed as the Driver Mode - if ASIO is displayed, that's fine. If it isn't, click on the drop-down arrow and select ASIO from the list. Click Apply and then close the Preferences window.
  5. Close SONAR and open POD Farm
  6. Plug your guitar into the NORM Instrument jack on your UX2 and make sure you have sound
  7. Open the POD Farm Mixer View and ensure you have a good signal in the Rec Send 1-2 meter:

  8. With POD Farm open, restart SONAR and open Preferences again. Check on the Driver Settings tab that SONAR has recognised your UX2 as both Playback Timing Master and Record Timing Master (mine is listed as the older TonePort UX2, yours will be listed as POD Studio UX2):


  9. To check SONAR is communicating perfectly with your UX2 in ASIO mode, click on the Record Timing Master drop-down arrow and you should see that both Send 1-2 and Send 3-4 are available:



    If it is, all is good, but leave it set to Send 1-2 and close Preferences
  10. Now, in the Track View, insert an Audio Track into your project (Insert > Audio Track) and arm it for recording
  11. Switch to the Console View and click on the Input selection drop-down arrow in the track's channel strip. You should see the following six options:

  12. Choose either Left ASIO Pod Studio UX2 Send 1-2 to record in mono, or Stereo ASIO Pod Studio UX2 Send 1-2 to record in stereo
 
Hope that all makes sense and gets you working OK Angus. Let us know if you need anything else explained.
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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_Angus_
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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/19 06:53:34 (permalink)
 
Steve, very many thanks for your helpful and informative response. I am still digesting some of it. as I'm pretty new to this stuff.
 
 
 
I was under the impression that with my UX2 I was not entitled to Pod Farm 2, and have only had the original Pod Farm installed. After reading your post I went and had another look with Line Monkey and was able to download and install Pod Farm 2, so now (although its a bit beyond me I have access to those amp sims etc in Sonar. Thanks!  :)  Is Pod Farm still serving any purpose, and can I safely uninstall it?
 
 
 
I'm not quite clear on this whole "stand alone mode" term people use regarding the UX2. Up until last night I have been unable to access the VSL's via Sonar, but I have been able to record my guitar playing in Sonar via the UX2 while using the various amp sims etc albeit with the unwanted and undocumented SCP (snap, crackle, pop) effect pedal.  :(
 
 
 
I will certainly try disabling the onboard sound and the audiophile card to see if this improves the UX2 performance. Thanks again for your kindness. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/19 08:50:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpful

Hi Angus, and no problem - I had exactly the same help given to me when I first got my UX2 and was experiencing similar problems!

Just to clarify the difference between using POD Farm in 'Standalone' mode and as a 'VST plug-in':
  • Standalone
    • You open POD Farm from the Start Menu or from a shortcut and it operates completely independently of any other program on your PC (it can be the only program open on your computer). You simply open it, plug in your guitar and you're good to go.
  • VST Plug-in
    • Although ostensibly the same interface as the standalone version, the VST version can only be operated inside another audio program capable of 'hosting' it. In this respect, it is the same as the audio effects that came bundled with your X1 Essentials.
    • To see which VSTs you have available, open X1, insert an audio track and switch to the Console View, right click inside the track's FX Bin and hover over the Audio FX link.
    • Which VST effects are listed, and how they are sorted, can be customised at any time if you select Utilities > Cakewalk Plug-in Manager
    The only real differences between the GUI of the standalone version and the VST version appear up in the top left. The standalone version has the name of the program next to the POD Farm icon and displays the 'Tone Direct Monitoring' logo. The VST displays the 'FX' icon and also shows details of which track in SONAR it is located:
     
     
     
    In operation, they do behave quite differently though.
     
    As you already know, you can select a preset in POD Farm standalone, plug in your guitar and play - you will hear your guitar being played through the amp and effects loaded in the preset. If you arm a track in SONAR for recording and select Left ASIO POD Farm UX2 Send 1-2 (for mono recording) or Left ASIO POD Farm UX2 Send 1-2 (for stereo recording) as the Input for that track, SONAR will record exactly what you are hearing from POD Farm.
     
    By way of contrast, the VST version of POD Farm is usually used to process guitar audio that you have already recorded. The best way to use it in this way is to record a completely 'dry', unprocessed guitar track into SONAR. Note, you can create dry/clean guitar tracks in SONAR using your UX2 by recording through a completely empty signal chain (i.e. no amp, no cabinet and no effects). I've even created an 'Empty' preset to do exactly this:
     

     
     
    Once you have your dry recorded audio, you can then insert the VST version of POD Farm into the FX Bin of that track. As you play your project, you will hear the processed sound of the guitar track as it is sent through POD Farm. The beauty of this method is that you can change the presets and effects in the VST as often as you like, your dry signal is never altered. However, when you export (i.e. mixdown) your project, the processing will be applied to the exported signal.
     
    However, a lot of guitar players (me included) don't really care for recording their parts completely dry. It's nice to hear some processing to help you get the 'feel' for what you're laying down. SONAR does allow you to do this while you're recording by routing some of the signal through the VSTs you have loaded in the FX Bin. To switch this feature on, you have to click on the Input Echo button on the track you've armed.
     
    You can either switch Input Echo on in the Console View:
     

     
     
    Or in the Track View:
     

     
     
    The only problem with using Input Echo is that there is a delay in your hearing the processed signal (hence the 'Echo' in the name). How long this delay (also called 'Latency') is depends mostly on how efficient your computer is at processing the sound. Generally speaking, the faster your PC, the lower the latency. On really quick machines, the delay is almost unnoticeable. On slower PCs, the delay might be too distracting for you to record comfortably with.  


    My old Windows XP computer was very slow and only had 180MB of RAM. I remember I used to get a lot of pops and crackles from my UX2 as the PC just didn't have the speed and processing power to run it efficiently.  
    However, the biggest problem I had with it occurred when I switched to a Vista machine with a much faster processor and 3GB of RAM. I just couldn't get it work, either in standalone mode or inside SONAR. As I was quite new to all this DAW recording, one of the guys in here walked me through it step by step, and disabling my PC's onboard soundcard seemed to be the key to getting it working.

    As I mentioned before, I just disabled the Realtek card in my newest Windows 7 PC as a matter of course before installing the UX2's drivers.
     
    As to removing POD Farm (1), there is no need. In fact, you will lose all the presets that come with it if you do.
     
    Let us know how you get on when you disable your onboard card.
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2013/04/19 09:30:37

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    _Angus_
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    Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/19 16:01:52 (permalink)
      Wow! Thanks again. :) Right, well - the good news: I've not really messed with FX yet in Sonar, but I got a Pod Farm reverb up and abusing some guitar that I recorded the other day, so that side is looking good. Less good news: I disabled both my M-Audio card and Realtek on board sound, set the UX2 as default sound, rebooted and..... the crackling was no better - actually, it seemed a little worse. I downloaded and re-installed the drivers again, but with no effect. I've seen suggestions for getting a usb pci card which might provide a better usb connection? Is there an easy way of checking there isn't a hardware problem with the UX2? Bother! Anyway, thanks again and have a great weekend.

    Sonar X3 Studio, Win 7, M-Audio 2496, Line 6 Pod 2,  Nvidia GTX 760, I7 3770K, 16GB ram, ASUS P8Z77-V LE Plus, Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1260, Protracker 2.3b
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    _Angus_
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    Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/22 04:34:11 (permalink)
    _

     
    At somebody's suggestion I tried a downloadable tool called DPC Latency checker to try and understand what's going  wrong between Sonar and my UX2:
     
     
      http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
     
     
     
    When I had the UX2 connected, it said there serious problems with the latency, when the UX2 was disconnected it said the pc was fine. There then followed a rather embarassing episode where I successfully disabled my mouse and keyboard, and could not access my pc, until I connected a PS2 mouse and got in via safe mode......
     
     
    Anyway, the DPC tool suggests its highlighting the problem, (when I played a Sonar session on the UX2 the DPC red graph latency bars went through the roof - but I'm not quite sure what to do next - I would appreciate any thoughts on how to proceed from here. Cheers.
     

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    AtticAndrew
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    Re:Clicking (pulsing) when I try to add guitar via UX2 2013/04/24 20:32:23 (permalink)
    I too use a UX2 as my interface. SteveStrummerUk has been extremely helpful on this thread, but he's overlooked one of the most powerful features of the UX2, which is the capability to record both wet and dry at the same time. Open your POD Farm from outside of Sonar. Choose a tone. Go to the mixer tab. Note that on the right there's Send 1-2, plus Send 3-4. Note that be default Send 1-2 shows 'Tone A' and Send 3-4 shows 'Dry Input'. This is the key to everything. Now open Sonar. Add 2 audio tracks and arm for recording. For the 1st track, choose UX2 Stereo 1/2 as the input. For the 2nd track, choose UX2 Stereo 3/4. Now hit record and play something. When you play back, what you should get is: Track 1: WET. The same thing you heard when you were playing. Track 2: DRY. The dry version of same - no tones, effects, amps, whatever. So if you're happy with Track 1 you can keep Track 2 muted and continue working the song. But if you want to change it later, mute track 1, un-mute track 2, and add the POD Farm to Track 2's FX bin. You can now change amps or whatever to anything you like. So, what you're getting is: --The ability to record live, hearing direct tone monitoring as you play (with no latency); --The ability to change the tone after the fact. Just be careful of your levels. Many tones include a compressor, which may require that you have different levels for wet and dry when recording. To summarize: --Use the stand-alone external POD Farm for initial recording, but be sure to record both Wet and Dry signals; --To change sounds after the fact, add the POD Farm plugin to the FX Bin of the Dry track. Hope this helps. My apologies for the lack of carriage returns in this message. The Forum software has stripped them out, despite numerous efforts to put them back in.
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