Examigan
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Clicking sounds when using any delay - SOLVED
I have Sonar X3 Producer, and just got a new PC finally. It is really fast compared to what I had before, its a Dell XPS i7 with 16 gigs of RAM. I am going to order a Focusrite audio interface, but for now I have to use the dreaded internal audio and use ASIO4All. Everything sounds ok for now, no issues, except when I add any delay plugin to a track with a synth or sampler plugin on it, it has clicking sounds when the delays occur. It's weird, as no other plugins have any problems except delays. Reverbs, this and that and the other thing....all fine. I tried increasing the buffers and all the usual stuff...same issue. Every run into this before? I know it is probably just that I don't have a good audio interface yet, but thought it was a little strange. Diva, ACE and many other synths work very well right now, and there's no clicking or extra junk audio going on unless I add a delay.
post edited by Examigan - 2015/07/25 19:39:03
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Zargg
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/23 12:42:06
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Hi. Maybe try the WDM/KS or MME drivers?
Most people will tell you to get rid of ASIO4ALL.
Best of luck.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Examigan
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/23 12:50:00
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Zargg71
Hi. Maybe try the WDM/KS or MME drivers?
Most people will tell you to get rid of ASIO4ALL.
Best of luck.
Ok thanks, I thought ASIO4ALL was best to use if there were any issues when using less than the ideal setup. I will try what you said and see what happens. It's just kinda weird that delays make it go goofy with clicks. Thanks -Rob
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dwardzala
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/23 13:21:36
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If you need "lower" latency to record, ASIO4ALL is better than WDM/KS drivers, but if you applying effects during mixdown, you can get away with higher latency and you might get some better stability.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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Examigan
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/23 13:37:02
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Thanks, I will try it after work today. I can't wait till I get that Focusrite interface though... I had a good audio card in my last PC but can't use it now. It is PCI card, and the new PC only has PCI-E slots.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/24 20:13:04
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Here is another thing I would like you to test out. If I looked it up properly, your new computer is a laptop, and that means it almost certainly has a built-in WiFi adapter.
MANY folks with WiFi on the computer they use that runs Sonar experience various issues related to DPC Latency spikes that turn out to be from their WiFi adapters. It is so common that it seems to me to be some normal consequence of the way most companies build their WiFi adapters into their computer systems, specially laptops.
Soooooooooo, what I would like you to try is to temporarily turn off or disable your laptop's WiFi adapter right before you launch Sonar, then after you do a bunch of things in Sonar and exit it, turn the WiFi adapter back on or enable it again.
What the above will do is to eliminate any possibility for the WiFi adapter to throw any massive DPC Latency spikes, when in Sonar.
Please try the above, and post back with the results,
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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slartabartfast
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/24 20:52:36
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dwardzala
If you need "lower" latency to record, ASIO4ALL is better than WDM/KS drivers, but if you applying effects during mixdown, you can get away with higher latency and you might get some better stability.
It is remarkably difficult to find out what Asio4all actually does, other than to serve as an interface link between ASIO enabled applications and something already present in Windows. Apparently the something is WDM since it is required to run Asio4all. If it does not bypass WDM, then it is difficult to understand how you will get lower latency from the Asio4all wrapper than the native WDM/KS. In any case it is not uncommon to find onboard chipsets that only run under MME. Getting any benefit in latency from such a creature would surely involve more than just making it look like ASIO to your application.
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Examigan
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/24 21:19:24
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Thanks for all your suggestions, I tried everything including turning off the Wifi (this is a desktop, but it has wifi and I disabled it), and all the rest. Nothing worked. So I switched all the settings back to the way I had them. I noticed just now that one delay that I hadn't tried yet with the new PC doesn't have the same problem. It's an oldie but goodie: the Sonitusfx Delay. I never really use it, but I just tried it... and it works. No clicks/pops, etc. I have been using the Cakewalk Tempo Delay recently, but now that I know this one works for me...it's great! I don't know why it would make a difference, but if it works.. it works. Weird...oh well.  When i get a real audio interface, I am sure any problems like this will melt away and should be gone, but I just wanted to work on a few things till then. I hopefully only have to wait a few more weeks, and then can also buy a few other things, like a new keyboard, and new monitors as well.  Thanks again, -Rob
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gswitz
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/24 23:24:05
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All tempo sync'd delays I know of click if you are changing the project tempo during playback.
I used to extract the tempo of the recordings that were not recorded to click tracks. This gives a long varied chart of the tempo changes during the song. Then I would apply tempo sync'd FX (Like the Vocal Strip Sonar Plugin). It gets all clicky.
These days, I pop open the Tempo Change box and tap along with the tempo in the larger part of the tune. Then I set the tempo to that. It doesn't vary during the song, but it's fairly close (for delay purposes anyway).
The Sonitus can be set to Tempo Sync. If you set it this way and your clicking comes back, check the Tempo view and see if your tune has a flat tempo.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Examigan
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/25 19:37:49
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Ya know what!? That fixed it!! So cool! Thanks gswitz!  I really appreciate it, it was driving me crazy...so my mental health just got a tad bit better. I have been using Sonar for about 10 years (since version 4), but I never heard of this before. I used to be under a different name on this forum: [link=mailto:rm5700@optonline]rm5700[/link]@ (yadada).... that email is gone so no worries
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gswitz
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Re: Clicking sounds when using any delay
2015/07/25 20:25:53
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Glad to help. It would be better if tempo sync would just use the current tempo and if tempo changes occur during the delay, it should just change it for future sounds. Current should render with the tempo at the time the sound on the track occurs. Sadly, I don't think the spec works this way. I'm sure Noel could weigh in.
But it might be weird if a sloped tempo change slowly changed during a single word. To what precision do you bother changing the tempo? To the sample?
Not worth the trouble.
If you really need delays working at two different temps where the delays overlap, you could split the track in two and set the two different delays to not tempo sync but with calculated delays, split the clips at the same point... now the delay will smoothly change at exactly that point changing temps perfectly.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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