rhythminmind 
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Clip properties - Length question.
Ok question.
A 4 measure long clip should = 4:01:000 no?
X1 is telling me 5:01:000
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:39:13
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Put your now time maker at the end of the 4 measure loop. What time does it show? Another way to look at it is a measure is from 1 to 2 the end of that measure is at 2. The now time is correct.
post edited by John - 2011/01/02 00:48:27
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:42:41
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Starting at 1:01:000 and you add 4 measures you come up with 5:01:000 - Yes?
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:43:33
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clip start = measure 10
End = measure 14
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:46:11
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Does it end at the beginning of measure 14 or the end of measure 14?
And perhaps use a few more words to describe what your looking for.
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:48:54
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Well, that's like asking when is midnight?
I think of midnight as 00:00:00, aka, "the new day". So Tuesday at midnight is "Tuesday morning".
But tell a dozen people "the party is Friday at midnight", and they'll all show up Friday evening, ready for the party to begin on... Saturday morning.
If a clip is four measures long, it will "technically" begin at 1:1:000 and end at 4:4:999 (where 999 is your highest tick value based on your project resolution).
Measure "5.1.000" actually represents the first "empty" tick.
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:50:22
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"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:51:04
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10 is a zero point. If you placed it starting on 11 you would have the same time as 1 to 5.
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:53:07
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Positively Charged
Well, that's like asking when is midnight?
I think of midnight as 00:00:00, aka, "the new day". So Tuesday at midnight is "Tuesday morning".
But tell a dozen people "the party is Friday at midnight", and they'll all show up Friday evening, ready for the party to begin on... Saturday morning.
If a clip is four measures long, it will "technically" begin at 1:1:000 and end at 4:4:999 (where 999 is your highest tick value based on your project resolution).
Measure "5.1.000" actually represents the first "empty" tick.
Good explanation, But I think the "total length" under clip properties should reference 0 not 1. Placement on the timeline is a different story.
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:56:34
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John
10 is a zero point. If you placed it starting on 11 you would have the same time as 1 to 5.
We're talking about clip length though, not the timeline.
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:56:37
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John
10 is a zero point. If you placed it starting on 11 you would have the same time as 1 to 5.
Your right, but the "length" still says 5:01:00 at the end of the day. If you ask some random musician to draw out 5:01:00 measures how many would come up with 4.
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 00:59:31
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Jose7822
John
10 is a zero point. If you placed it starting on 11 you would have the same time as 1 to 5.
We're talking about clip length though, not the timeline.
What does the time line measure? Length of time, am I right?
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:00:02
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You mean "should be based on zero", like base and displacement thinking in computer programs? If so, I get that. But most musicians and producers don't work from zero. They work from one. Most music scores begin with "measure 1". If you change your way of counting measures to be zero-based, then to keep things consistent, you would also have to count your beats 0, 1, 2, 3, and so forth. Good luck getting the world to rethink this. In the meantime, as a consolation prize, you might be able to blame Mozart and Bach and Handel, all those old dead guys... 
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:03:25
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If you ask some random musician to draw out 5:01:00 measures how many would come up with 4.
None. If you ask them to draw out measures from 1 to 5 on a ruler they would come out with 4. The length is not the total of the measures but the beginning and the ending point. What is being reported by the properties is space not the total number of measures. The amount of measures is apparant by a quick look at the TV.
post edited by John - 2011/01/02 01:08:09
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:09:35
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John
If you ask some random musician to draw out 5:01:00 measures how many would come up with 4.
None. If you ask them to draw out measures from 1 to 5 on a ruler they would come out with 4. The length is not the total of the measures but the beginning and the ending point.
John, that would depend on "who" the musician was. If you were asking me, my left-brain might cause me to either ask or assume that you wanted measures 1 to 5 "inclusive" (aka, measures 1 through 5), and thus I might draw out 5 full measures, not 4. My point is, specificity helps to avoid misunderstandings.
post edited by Positively Charged - 2011/01/02 01:13:07
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:10:20
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John
Jose7822
John
10 is a zero point. If you placed it starting on 11 you would have the same time as 1 to 5.
We're talking about clip length though, not the timeline.
What does the time line measure? Length of time, am I right?
Exactly! What I meant was that it doesn't matter where you place the clip, you'll get the same length reading regardless. Your example was redundant.
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:10:39
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John
If you ask some random musician to draw out 5:01:00 measures how many would come up with 4.
None. If you ask them to draw out measures from 1 to 5 on a ruler they would come out with 4. The length is not the total of the measures but the beginning and the ending point.
Your not wrong & I now understand why Sonar is saying 5. I just feel the timelines/ruler has nothing to do with the total length under clip properties.
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:12:08
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Rhythminmind, did you ever use a "number line" to learn math in grade school? Sonar pretty much works the same way.
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:13:01
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Would you like it more if you use time for length in the properties? It'll come out the same except you start at 0. A 9 sec clip will start 0 and end at 9.
post edited by John - 2011/01/02 01:15:48
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:16:07
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Positively Charged
John
If you ask some random musician to draw out 5:01:00 measures how many would come up with 4.
None. If you ask them to draw out measures from 1 to 5 on a ruler they would come out with 4. The length is not the total of the measures but the beginning and the ending point.
John, that would depend on "who" the musician was. If you were asking me, my left-brain might cause me to either ask or assume that you wanted measures 1 to 5 "inclusive" (aka, measures 1 through 5), and thus I might draw out 5 full measures, not 4.
My point is, specificity helps to avoid misunderstandings.
And thus SONAR should be counting the total length of the clip (i.e. 4 measures long), NOT the "end point" (for lack of better term).
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:20:16
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John
Would you like it more if you use time for length in the properties? It'll come out the same except you start at 0. A 9 sec clip will start 0 and end at 9.
No, because it's counting a different unit. I get what Positively is saying, and it makes sense. But I personally feel that Rhythm has a more valid point of they way SONAR should be reading length in M:B:T.
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:21:29
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And thus SONAR should be counting the total length of the clip (i.e. 4 measures long), NOT the "end point" (for lack of better term).
Perhaps, except its length that is being reported not the number of measures. They are two different things.
post edited by John - 2011/01/02 01:22:31
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:35:00
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John
And thus SONAR should be counting the total length of the clip (i.e. 4 measures long), NOT the "end point" (for lack of better term).
Perhaps, except its length that is being reported not the number of measures. They are two different things.
I know. I guess what Rhythm and I are getting at is that SONAR should perhaps be measuring the number of measures based on total amount of a unit and not based on the timeline. As in, this passage is 4 measures long and NOT this passage goes from 1:1:000 to 5:1:000. Hope that makes sense. EDIT: For clarity.
post edited by Jose7822 - 2011/01/02 01:36:13
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rhythminmind
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:35:33
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I'm just used to how most other DAW function. Placement & duration are independent  
post edited by rhythminmind - 2011/01/02 01:50:43
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Jose7822
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:43:46
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A picture is always worth 1,000 words :-)
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:49:15
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Jose7822
John
And thus SONAR should be counting the total length of the clip (i.e. 4 measures long), NOT the "end point" (for lack of better term).
Perhaps, except its length that is being reported not the number of measures. They are two different things.
I know.
I guess what Rhythm and I are getting at is that SONAR should perhaps be measuring the number of measures based on total amount of a unit and not based on the timeline. As in, this passage is 4 measures long and NOT this passage goes from 1:1:000 to 5:1:000. Hope that makes sense.
EDIT: For clarity.
But in actuality (in the project I currently have open, for example), the four-bar passage does not go from 1:1:000 to 5:1:000, it really goes from 1:1:000 through 4:4:960. I guess I don't understand what the problem is. It seems to be working correctly to me.
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brundlefly
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:49:56
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Guy, guys, guys. Length is End - Start. 5 - 1 = 4. In SONAR 8.5, a clip that starts at 1:01:000, and ends at 5:01:000, will have a "Length" in clip properties of 4:01:000. In X1, it will show 5:01:000 as Rhythminmind said. X1 is reporting the wrong length, pure and simple.
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:55:42
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I guess its a matter of what the meaning of length is. LOL
Maybe X1 should have end and length in the properties. Including start of course.
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Positively Charged
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:56:17
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I see it now. I had a brain fart and was not looking in the inspector clip length field. Indeed, it does say that the length is 5.1.000.
Bug confirmed!
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John
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Re:Clip properties - Length question.
2011/01/02 01:59:39
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Guy, guys, guys. Length is End - Start. 5 - 1 = 4. In SONAR 8.5, a clip that starts at 1:01:000, and ends at 5:01:000, will have a "Length" in clip properties of 4:01:000. In X1, it will show 5:01:000 as Rhythminmind said. X1 is reporting the wrong length, pure and simple. It can't be wrong its a computer. LOL If you go by that then you place your now line at the reported end it will be 3/4 of the way through the measures. LOL
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