Helpful ReplyCollaboration Bandlab

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jazzbass12
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2018/08/18 20:07:15 (permalink)

Collaboration Bandlab

Maybe a dumb question.. can you easily collaborate with other Bandlab users when using Band Labs version of Cakewalk?
Thanks

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Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/19 00:20:13 (permalink)
There are two ways I do it when I do it.
 
It's easy to export stems and import them into any DAW. This is usually my method. The Bandlab app hasn't actually caught on with me, mainly because I don't do a lot of collaboration. I can see where exchanging files through the app could be something other people like. I see the tech as similar to a simple Garageband kind of thing. Good enough to hash out ideas on I suppose. The one thing I don't know much about its the way The BL app lets multiple examples of the tune be changed by perfect strangers who can add anything they want. So I wouldn't put anything on there that you wouldn't want altered in a big way. 
What goes in won't be what comes out. That could be good or bad all depending. I know that sounds like an evasive answer but it's true.

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#2
bluebeat1313
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/19 19:21:50 (permalink)
Interesting.
My hope is that collaboration can be done or at least have a streamlined option in this manner:
 
If you agree to someone trying something with your tune, you send them mixed Cakewalk project in bundled file with all audio mixed in single wav and tracks reserved for the person who is going to add to it. Like a ghost of your original project, but simplified to the bone and reverse process to merge "received" file to original project.
 
Example: Lets say I have a Cakewalk project that I want to add live harmonica. I mix all of the audio to a single stereo track and would send a Cakewalk bundle file with that single track to the musician who will record his stuff on reserved tracks and send back to me for a final say/mix.
 
If collaborations are 50/50 or such, then a more complex solution could work, like sharing complete bun files, but that might not be a universal solution because of various plugins and many other good things that might differ between 2 or more computers. So single mixed stereo file in the project as a reference point would be something I would be comfortable with. If this process is streamlined within Cakewalk it would be ideal for me, until we achieve magnificent internet speed that would eliminate latency :) 
 
Maybe it is already here and I just slept through the process?
 
 
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Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/20 00:15:01 (permalink)
It seems you might be looking for something a bit more real time. I'm so accustomed to working with people who have different daws that I had almost given up hope that anyone would actually be using the same daw . In one of my last collabs the OP had Reason.
 
If you don't need the mix to be in the cloud the way it is in the BL app you could simply use something like dropbox or similar and share the file with your collaborator as a .bun file. It's usually best to have one designated person who mixes, so if you were mixing you would eventually have a project with all of the tracks in it no efx or any other plugin, because, as you say, you probably wouldn't have or use the same plugins. 

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#4
bluebeat1313
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/20 01:06:13 (permalink)
Starise, 
No, no real time online DAW:) That is way in the future.
I guess it would be natural for people in Bandlab community to take advantage of fantastic desktop DAW that is free. I hope bakers will make intuitive way in the future to share core reference audio files from point A to point B between two desktop Cakewalks without bouncing around full project, directly from Cakewalk.... maybe introduce a new file format: project.clb sort of condensed bundle?
 
Here is example. I have a friend. She has great voice. She is 150 miles away. We meet 2-3 times a year. If we are not distracted by things that life throws at us, we try to record something at my place. She does not do record on her own and she does not have time to learn DAW from scratch. If we have same DAW it would make things much easier as I can explain basic stuff to her. If we can share files efficient, user friendly way, through DAW plugin or some core feature it would make things even smoother. In this scenario, she would open my file with instrumentals and only have to remember 5-10 steps in Cakewalk to record her vocal takes and then share that project with me. 
 
P.S. Liked your:  Angel Of The Pond. Busy, but in a very good way.
 
#5
michheld
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/20 21:38:24 (permalink)
Hi everybody,
have you already heard about Steinberg opening its plugin "VST Transit" for all DAWs?
I read it right before:
https://www.steinberg.net...s/vst/vst_transit.html
https://youtu.be/ii91BgRrHIE
Maybe this might be an interesting alternative for an end-to-end-collaboration?
But sorry, no App for iPhone, just iPad...
Best regards
#6
michheld
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/21 13:04:48 (permalink)
but Momentum has got an iPhone-Version ;-)
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Audioicon
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/21 17:00:22 (permalink)
bluebeat1313
Here is example. I have a friend. She has great voice. She is 150 miles away. We meet 2-3 times a year. If we are not distracted by things that life throws at us, we try to record something at my place. She does not do record on her own and she does not have time to learn DAW from scratch. If we have same DAW it would make things much easier as I can explain basic stuff to her. If we can share files efficient, user friendly way, through DAW plugin or some core feature it would make things even smoother. In this scenario, she would open my file with instrumentals and only have to remember 5-10 steps in Cakewalk to record her vocal takes and then share that project with me. 


Very interesting my friend:
I have the same issue but I do not think collaborative software will solve my problems, at least not between me and a non-studio owner, or someone with no studio access.

Here is my story.
I have been engineering music all my life, I hate singing. for me it's like going to the dentist. 
So I decided that I will write produce and Engineer but would rather other people sing my songs.

Based on what you just wrote, it could solve all of my issues when it comes to collaboration with singers but here is my problem. I recently met a girl on Bandlab, her voice blows me away but she knows nothing about professional recording, in fact, the song she posted was recorded on her phone and uploaded to Bandlab.

I could send her audio files assuming there was a streamline way to collaborate. This big issue is how do I get quality recordings of her? For example: I use a Neumann U87 and I would prefer she sing into that but regardless of software, she will need to go to a professional studio to record.

The best I can do is book her at a professional studio and do a voice over. This works but is expensive and not very fluent.

I think any collaborative software will require a hardware counterpart.

It makes no sense for me to record on an SSL Console and then send the files for a singer to sing in her phone or in her dinning room with the dog barking in the yard. 

But you are right, collaboration between two studio owners will greatly benefit from the existence of collaborative tools.





Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/21 17:37:33 (permalink)
I had the same issue Audioicon on several occasions. One sang into her phone and the other into a portable recorder.I actually used one take. It was either do that or not have a collaboration. I made it sound ok could have sounded better with a good mic.
https://soundcloud.com/starise/chestnuts-roasting-featuring
 
It can be frustrating when you have the tech but the vocalist lives 5000 miles away and has no access to a mic. 
 

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#9
Audioicon
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/21 17:47:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Starise 2018/08/22 14:31:25
Starise
I had the same issue Audioicon on several occasions. One sang into her phone and the other into a portable recorder.I actually used one take. It was either do that or not have a collaboration. I made it sound ok could have sounded better with a good mic.
https://soundcloud.com/starise/chestnuts-roasting-featuring
 
It can be frustrating when you have the tech but the vocalist lives 5000 miles away and has no access to a mic. 
 



Damn, this sound so sexy!
I feel warm already.

This is really good, sounds live!

Yeah, I am not sure how I am going to collaborate, I have to find someone close to me. I also have another friend in Brazil and she has a studio so it's better, the tracks are great!




Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
#10
Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/21 18:40:06 (permalink)
This was the mic in an android smart phone...I  think she has the talent to sound good on anything. I haven't heard your girl, but some of those phones dare I say it...aren't bad 

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#11
bluebeat1313
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/22 14:22:35 (permalink)
Nice thoughts, especially about "hardware counterpart"
I am sure there are more than 100 ways to colaborate with someone...
If you take music more or less seriously and just do not have the money for Neumann mic, you can always get Blue snowball USB mic for $50 or basic Irig instrument interface for about same amount. That will get you to the world of amatuer DAW recording. Professional....probably not, but I think it would be better than phone mic. 
 
So back to this topic, I think it might be interesting to have a sort of universal/ user friendly tool for colobaration with people who know little about DAW recording.  So that when you get their recorded stuff back, it falls in correct place in Cakewalk tracks. Sort of proper, user friendly file exchange, I guess. 
#12
Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/22 14:38:32 (permalink)
....the closest thing right now is Bandlab. It works for getting ideas down. 
 
This is the part that might trip you up- "people who know little about DAW recording"
 
I have attempted to explain basic daw concepts and I mean no disrespect but many of them just don't get it and many never will. One person I was working with got a Mac with Garageband and she simply can't figure out how to make it work. In another case I even sent over a fully functional daw to a person I thought needed it because we were trying to get a mix together. That didn't pan out either and I was out an older daw. 

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#13
Audioicon
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/22 15:58:11 (permalink)
bluebeat1313
If you take music more or less seriously and just do not have the money for Neumann mic, you can always get Blue snowball USB mic for $50.


Unfortunately, I take music too seriously. 
But it is not just about Mic, I am talking about the environment. You get recording with dog barking and and Lawn Mower in the background.

On a lighter note, hopefully, my wife do not read this, I will have to explain the whole Neumann thing and the $50.00 mic. 

I will agree, collaborating with ideas is great, song writing, creating demos and so on but when it comes to the actual production, collaboration requires in-person work, unless both parties have access to adequate recording equipment and environment.



Checkout my new song: Playing on YouTube: EUPHORIA.
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bluebeat1313
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/22 16:29:27 (permalink)
Audioicon
I will agree, collaborating with ideas is great, song writing, creating demos and so on but when it comes to the actual production, collaboration requires in-person work, unless both parties have access to adequate recording equipment and environment.

100% agreed, but mechanism of file sharing can be the same, lets say with two modes 
a) Simple mode: Idea sharing/song writing. Sort of very naive multi track recorder with Solo/Mute.
b) Full mode for production etc.
 
 
#15
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/22 19:51:13 (permalink)
Tim,
It sounds like all somebody needs is a willing person with recording chops and a DAW local to the collab mate that has been using the Phone for a studio
If at all possible , get them to help you out ..who knows , it could be a win win  ...
The singer  ditches the phone and gets more comfortable under the red light . You may get a better track / performance . The local person w a DAW makes a new contact ( you  ) while getting some much needed experience ...
 
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#16
bluebeat1313
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/23 00:36:23 (permalink)
 Cakewalk can be used in very complex ways and at the same time for simple tracking (ideas/song writting)
For me, ideas/songwritting  forkflow is the most important feature in Cakewalk.  For production I can always use these recorded "ideas" as a reference in the same project...
 
Still, for sketch/rought demos/song writting coloborations between 2 people with Cakewalk(s) that are distance away the only "Easy" way  I think is exchanging WAV (or midi) files that share same starting point or exchange Cakewalk bundled files stripped of third party plugins. 
 
Probably I am in minority here with such question / request, but I think automated, simplified process of some kind that allows 2 people to colobarate using Cakewalk, exchanging core files with ease would be interesting.
#17
Kev999
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/23 04:40:26 (permalink)
Online collaboration works best if each of the individual participants can independently organise their own recording process. Otherwise, their communication gets focused on technical issues instead of musical ideas. It needs to be a musical collaboration rather than an engineering one.
 
And sharing the same software is an unnecessary restriction. If that was necessary then there would be a lot fewer collabs taking place in the world.

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msmcleod
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/23 09:09:14 (permalink)
Kev999
Online collaboration works best if each of the individual participants can independently organise their own recording process. Otherwise, their communication gets focused on technical issues instead of musical ideas. It needs to be a musical collaboration rather than an engineering one.
 
And sharing the same software is an unnecessary restriction. If that was necessary then there would be a lot fewer collabs taking place in the world.




That's the great thing about BandLab having a simple web-based daw. You can drag & drop your stems to and from whatever main DAW you have, and regardless of what plugins you have.
 
I guess if your collabs just happen to have the same DAW & plugins, then there's nothing to stop you sharing a CbB project, but I suspect merging tracks from several CbB projects would soon lead to human error at some point.
 
IMHO BandLab need to look at improving the administration side of collaboration - i.e. better granularity of genres, better way of advertising yourself & searching for collabs.

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Starise
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Re: Collaboration Bandlab 2018/08/23 15:07:41 (permalink)
@Kenny, thanks for the suggestions man. It gets kinda complicated but she is from India and she is always traveling, plus I doubt she had the money to pay someone. It would have been cool if she would have had access to someone with a daw. The few tracks I made with her gained her enough interest that she could then dump me 
 
I like the way Kev999 said it, in many cases the discussions have been more about how we would do it than actually tracking.
This gets to be partially a male/female issue sometimes too all depending on the people involved. As you know a back and forth over a recording project can get to 50 emails in no time flat. Imagine her husband or boyfriend sees her phone with 50 email exchanges from me who sometimes asks her how she's doing.In one case the husband became protective/jealous and told her to stop working with me. I never said anything that should have made him think that. It was all business. With all of those emails flying back and forth it starts to look like a "thing". It's all really time consuming. You have a vocalist who only need to sing well...the rest of it is on you, the composition, making the words fit, mixing, everything. Can amount to a lot of time, especially if no money is involved.Sometimes a PITA TBH. I have been singing my own material.

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