Comparison of Sontec 432 C with IK Version

I hear no diff at all. Will wait till it goes on big sale and...hopefully...use my jam points;-)



Of course, listening on an iPad. Will try again at the studio Monday.

Welp...as I said will REALLY listen tomorrow when back at the studio and see what's what:-)

While it's never optimal to judge these things based on a YT vid, I thought there was not enough sonic difference between the plug and the real deal to justify the price difference.  I mean, the plug can be had for about one-half of a percent of the cost of the hardware, but sounded at least 80% as good, I thought. 
 
A great-sounding plugin on its own merits anyway, one of the best software EQs I've heard.  Real CPU hog, though.  No way this can be used on multiple tracks in a typical mix on a typical system, thus the "mastering" designation.
 
Cheers,
Eddie

Sycraft

Zo
My question in fact is is it really the plugin lacking or that PT project ...(and all the variables , PDC , routing , Bit def and sample rates ect ..)

 
 
The only thing then differentiating real and the software is the flaws the real unit will have. That you have to measure and model, if said flaws are desirable.
 
But it isn't like there's some magic juju that we just don't understand and thus can't emulate. If you want to see simulation taken to the extreme, look at a program like Cadence. It is how things get designed these days: Make the circuit in Cadence, test its parameters and refine it to get what you want, then build it in the real world and validate the performance.
 
So if there are major differences between hardware and software that is supposed to emulate it then either:
 
1) The software is poorly done. It is designed wrong, or fails to model something that matters. Now this can be deliberate in some cases, not poor design, for example the noise of an analogue circuit might not be modeled because really, who wants more noise?
 
2) There is an issue in the test setup. Something was not set consistently and that caused differences.

I disagree SY.  You can design all you want on a PC Program.  It will NEVER give you the SOUND that
is created by hardware components...it will only "emulate" it.  If you listen to this, all things being equal,
the REAL unit is ALIVE and working it's MAGIC (mojo).  The plugin sounds dead and flat in comparison.  If you can't hear that, then you shouldn't be in the mixing business.

You cannot truly "emulate" the character imparted by physical components.  This is the reason that plugins
cost $100 and Hardware costs $10,000.  If plugins could truly emulate the actual "SOUND" of the hardware,
they would stop building the Hardware units, and the plugins would cost $10,000.

Furthermore, Studios would stop investing in hardware....as they could do the EXACT same thing for pennies on 
the dollar.  Truth is THEY CANNOT.  Software is only an "emulation" but will never truly sound like hardware.  While
they can get some of the "characteristic" of the hardware, they cannot replicate it in it's entirety (nor would they, 
as that would put the Hardware companies in a bad spot).  This is also the MAIN reason that a song mixed and mastered in a large studio with Hardware, will ALWAYS sound better then one done in a project or bedroom studio, unless they have the same Hardware used in the Large studio.  I'm not saying you can't get a great sounding mix.
I'm saying that it will NOT and CANNOT sound the same.

The guy in the video works in a Mastering house.  The Protools project is the SAME on both Hardware and Plugin,
and all things being equal, just switched between the plugin and the Hardware.

Like I explained before, you can ananlyze what a piece of hardware does to an EQ curve on an analyzer, but that analyzer will never tell you HOW the plugin or the hardware SOUNDS, because that is a byproduct of the choice
and quality of the hardware components used in the construction.  And software just simply CANNOT exactly replicate that SOUND.

This is pure fact.  

The thing that is missing from the "Emulation" equation is the fact that
all those "components" have a "sound" based on their material composition
that can NEVER be replicated in a software program.  You may replicate the
Math...but you have to consider what's NOT there...i.e...the flow of electrons 
through a conductive material or tube that is impossible to duplicate precisely
in an emulation...as chaos theory must ensue....

As I stated...all the science and programming expertise in the world will never
reproduce that...because it is inherent in the medium.

mike_mccue
Besides... Sontec doesn't accept JamPoints™
 
 
;-)

I demoed the IK version & it's excellent but I prefer CDSoundMaster's Songtec.
The vibe, mojo or whatever you want to call that's missing in the IK version is there,
it has the depth the IK lacks. Plus the high end is a bit more pristine to my ears.

Since I only use it for mastering I don't have any cpu issues.
If you don't like or use Nebula get the IK, it still has a nice clean mo.
Being a previous customer it cost about 1/2 than the IK so for me the choice was obvious.

I just went to the CDSoundMaster Website, put the MTMC-M2 in my cart
and it's still $99...But this is compressor, I don't see a 432c emulation in the store.

It says that ended back in early 2014...but it's still ringing out at $99

As far as "Software" being able to replicate hardware...it's just not feasible...

They can get an "approximate" duplication, but you simply cannot "model" what happens
inside circuits, because it would require modelling the "Silica Sand" and the "Methodology"
and Production characteristics, and the electrons flowing through the line...and all the 
connections and wiring, etc...not going to happen...I don't care what anybody says...

They'll get close...but they'll never replicate hardware...chaos theory always wins...period.
You can't even get 2 pieces of hardware to be "identical" in characteristics...just reality boys,
doesn't matter what math you do...it will NEVER sound "the same".

You have to understand, if they WERE able to do it...those plugins would cost $10,000...not
$100...just common sense...

Good article Mike!  Thanks!

The algorithms will get better over time (they'll start modelling heat behavior and things we can't even think of), the computational power will grow - it's all incremental. As a software guy, I'm absolutely certain they'll nail it one day. 
 
Let's hope we're all still around to argue about it! 

In fact , in person , i don't giva a fesak ....about how close plugins soounds or not ....just if it's fun working with it , inspiring , efficient , and good sounding !!  does it allows me to reach B from A quikly nad with fun and instinct moves , no "thinked" procedure ....
 
So even some HW i skipped other the decades because of the lack of those things ....
 
i'm pretty sure all you guyz could mix and do what you do with X3 pro Channel! 
 
So at the end i'm more into how th eplugin work , is it stable , maitnened well , well coded , optimised , well featured and who i'm fukkkiinnhghn with (brands)
 
Just my 2 cents

You mean when ram and memory limitations aren't even a consideration because they consist of a totally new and different methodology and cost next to nothing? And when self-aware and self teaching computers are doing the computations? And everything is on the nano scale? And the human brain has long since been totally mapped and replicated...and vastly improved??

Child's play.

What do you think modern computers would have seemed like to folks in Ancient Rome? They could have grasped the significance...but not the scope. You're simply doing the same thing. Measuring tomorrow's capabilities by today's limitations. That type of reasoning has never worked. Ever. Sorry.

Eddie TX

cclarry
I just went to the CDSoundMaster Website, put the MTMC-M2 in my cart
and it's still $99...But this is compressor, I don't see a 432c emulation in the store.

This is what Carl was talking about:  http://cdsoundmaster.com/site/cds-software-online/SONTEC-Neb.html
 
Cheers,
Eddie
 

Oh, it's under Nebula Pro...that's why I didn't see it...thanx Eddie!

I just got this, the EQ73, the Precision Comp, and the Echoflex for the price
of just the Mastering EQ...and I still have credits left!  Now that's what I'm talkin'
bout Willis!  That's $37.50 each and I still have credits!