Compression

Why is it that most people say, "don't use to much" when, in most videos I ever saw, they use it quite a bit?
 
I recently watched a video on mixing in Mixbus where the guy mixed a country song and he used up to -6db, sometimes more, of gain reduction and I thought it was making a better difference. Of course, I have old ears so that has to be taken into consideration. 

Recently, I imported a project into Mixbus and was a little more judicious with gain reduction and went to -3db or -4db of gain reduction and I think I got better results as well. Then you get those that say, "it's over processed". (wow! I just noticed that our typing is being saved as we type. lol!) I don't get those that say that things are over processed. I've noticed that you can isolate things better this way and make the mix more clear.
 
Here is an example of what I did different. Track 1 is mixed in Sonar X2. Track 2 is the same only I exported the stems into Mixbus.
 
Track 1
Track 2
 
The only think I haven't fixed in track 2 is there bass seems to be doing something weird when it pumps out the pedal tone.
 
I would love to hear any thoughts from you pro guys about compression and it's uses.

Now that I know more about compression and what it sounds like after playing around with all the gizmos in Sonar I think that over the years the "smashed" sound is what has become popular... especially in the world of modern country music (if we are limiting the discussion to actual recorded instruments). To me it's too much and unrealistic. For that style of music I'd rather it sound like the artists are playing in front of me... not crawling around inside my brain.
 
In my usual vein of music (metal/hardcore) I think the same thing has happened and is part of the reason why I'm not really a big fan of a lot of newer acts. It's just squished and flattened too much. I don't hear the drum heads vibrating, the tubes rattling or the chaos bouncing around the room. There is a significant amount of "whooshing" and "clicking".
 
However the old style washed out or distant sound of old recordings isn't great either. Not that I've actually been able to successfully achieve it yet but I'd like my stuff to sound like a good balance of both. In your face but not inside your brain. Like watching an unmic'd band in a small club through their amps/acoustic drums and the vox going through a small PA... except everything is clearer and more defined as if you were wearing high quality ear plugs but even clearer.... if that makes sense.
 
Cheers.

I recorded the 2 tracks into Wave lab and ran the Global Analyzer. 
Track 1 is average RMS 15 -Max 11 min 40 
Track 2 is Average RMS 17  Max 8  min 40  
 
So it would seem you have applied a little compression and gained a few Db in the loudness wars.   I myself aim for around 14-15 average and peaks at 8 so track 2 in in the ballpark. 
But it could be pushed further because what is also happening is your drum shots are huge peaks. They are what is sucking up your overhead. 
Not only that a spectrograph shows all activity centred around 120 hz with nothing much showing over 300hz at all,, SO the song comes across as being quiet even though it's has the correct RMS level,,, in other words,, common issue of controlling the low end. The low end is so overpowering it pushed the compressor which then squashes your guitars and vocals. 

I was just pointing out why you are hearing pumping from the low end. Your low end at 100Hz is peaking,
But the rest of the spectrum is way down, So when the bass hits the compressor it squashes the over all sound, A multi band compressor will not do this,
But first it is better to balance your mix, Use a hi pass filter on your bass/ kick tracks.  The reason you originally asked if it is OK to use compression, You only need it to control what cannot be controlled with regular volume and Eq. First balance your mix, then use compression. 
Compression can also be used for an effect. It can be used on an entire mix but will not be as usefull as simply balancing the mix first. A multi band ( LP64)  is what I use for mastering a mix,,it will tame any low end without compromising the mid/ hi's. 

Guitarpima
Why is it that most people say, "don't use to much" when, in most videos I ever saw, they use it quite a bit?

Because most videos are mixing pop music in a style that is heavily influenced by the sound that is actually popular as opposed to what is advocated by "the experts". What sounds good is always subjective and until the preferred sound by the masses of what sounds good matches what audio engineers deem good this discreprency will continue.

Track 1 the vocals sound like they aren't balanced in the mix. 
Track 2 is a much better balanced mix despite sounding louder.
 

I agree Sidroe. Although this song doesn't vary on dynamics that much I try to maintain good dynamics. I have to admit though it was easier playing classical guitar and use dynamics effectively.
 
Maybe we should start a thread on using dynamics effectively and different techniques on how to achieve this using midi. Most people should know how to do this while playing.

Cactus - your posts above were quite good, in my opinion.
 
A lot of times, folks don't realize how many low-end frequencies are too 'thick', and are competing all over each other, and when things then sound 'lost in the mix', they try all kinds of things end still end up with mush.
 
Take a look at the frequency overlaps between things like bass and drums, as well as any low-octave piano and bass.  These are the most common low-end instruments that fight to be heard, because their frequencies are all overlapping.
 
I have a wonderful laminated chart that I keep posted immediately in front of me, to the right of my 2 monitors, that lays out the frequency ranges of various instruments.  I simply searched the web and found it.  They let you look at it online for free, and for something like $10-$20 they will send it too you.  It's pretty good size, and I use it everyday.
 
The idea with all of what I am getting at is that many times, if you analyze the notes being played in the low end, you will find the ones that are overlapping, and then you can decide how to deal with it.  Some folks try to boost above it, but I suggest looking at instead 'THINNING' some of the frequencies, notching out some of the frequencies, so that you still have a substantial portion of the original sound present, but just a bit 'lighter' for those particular overlapping frequencies.  Another way of dealing it is to take a look at the low notes some instruments are playing.
 
For example, if you listen to Steely Dan music, you won't notice it immediately, but most of the time the keyboards are NOT including the typical doubled octave apart root notes of the chords, and in fact many times the keyboard player is only playing 3-4 note chords in the right hand, with only an occasionally needed single lower note.  Another example is Genesis.  They write their songs so that each instrument is given its own space, and it makes EVERYTHING stand out, with a GIANT sound.  So, let the bass player play the low notes, let the keyboards play their own notes/chords, and leave the guitar player to their own devices.  Without even dealing with EQ or compression yet, cleaning up notes that aren't needed will by itself make everything sound cleaner, crisper, and it all stands out better.
 
THEN you can look at compression and that whole end of things.
 
There are SOOO many ways of doing things, and folks are right, it is incredibly subjective, but regardless of the method chosen to 'fix it', mushy music is a lonely and soulless place to be.  :)
 
Bob Bone
 

Thanks for the support of what I was trying to get across to the OP Bob. I'm not sure he understood what I was saying ,however. 
I can't "hear" what is wrong with headphones as I'm away from home. So I thought I'd plunk it into Wave Lab I have on my laptop. One advantage to cheap on board sound cards is they have "what you hear" so I was able to capture the songs. There was very little difference other than a 2 Db gain in average RMS level.  
Right away I saw the wave form was very peaked in time to the kick. This has the effect of driving your meters to the red , So you think the song is still quiet and you slap a compressor on the master bus or the bass or kick track. The solution is really to see why the kick or bass is peaking.  You need to trouble shoot at the tracks first. 
EQ is critical on bass tracks. 
As well as the peaks the song contained almost nothing beyond 300 Hz. 
Your ears should tell you this, but looking at a spectrum analysis helps you "see" the issue too. 
HP filtering the offending tracks might be a much better solution than a compressor.  

Just to chime in on compressors in general.
I was once told by a friend of mine (Phil York - Red Headed Stranger producer/engineer/Grammy Winner) when I first started doing this that it might take me a year to actually "hear" what the compressor is doing (unlike a delay that's obvious)...I said to myself...to myself mind you...lol "That's crazy...what does he know"...lmao...Well as it turned out, he was right...and I'm not quite sure I can hear it yet...and it's been 10 years.
 
With that said...The old boards, like the ones the Beatles recorded on in the 60's, had a compressor on every channel. Someone must have thought that they were important enough to add that along with the eq section, and a volume control. I'm sure they used the compressors as limiters a lot (a very useful setting using a comp as a limiter...all it does is keep freq's from hitting the ceiling..which when recording is invaluable) 
 
I think if you use a comp on a track after you record the track, (unless you're using it as a limiter) really helps limit the amount of compression you need when you master, and that's where I see the most glaring misuse of the comp. I hate when I see a track come through here that's smashed against the ceiling leaving no room to do anything. That's crazy. Mastering is actually a rather subtle thing, in it's original use...Since we started doing this 
at home, I think it's lost some of the subtlety that the professional mastering engineers use. eg a touch of eq...a little compression...a little leveling and that's it. The work is suppose to be done in the mix...not in the mastering phase. I have Ozone, and I can totally change the direction of a mix, with one preset...but I don't think that was, or is, the intention of the mastering phase. That would really piss off the high-end engineers who spent weeks mixing a track to only have some idiot with Ozone change the whole thing with one press of a button...don't get me wrong, I love my Ozone plug-in...but...
 
I do like compression a lot for tightening up a group of background voices routed to an aux channel. You can really make them sound nice that way...and on singers...some need more than others...so you have to figure that out. As far as compressing instruments..bass and drum probably requite the moist attention, although distorted guitars sound good smashed a little bit...hell that's part of the sound anyway.
 
So use a compressor more like a tool than an effect (unless that's what you're going for) and start learning how to hear it in the mix...the reason they kept asking for "more cowbell"...was someone had the threshold at -60, and they couldn't get it any louder...just sayin'...
I'm done for now
Jason