Computer Hardward - Crash at low latencies

Lots of folks find alternative effects to use when tracking, for effects that cause latency issues, and then when tracking is all done, they switch to the effects that are designed for use in mixing/mastering.
 
So, instead of using a CPU-intensive effect during tracking, or one that has look-ahead processing, they find some less demanding substitute to use, just while recording, then swap back to the actual desired effect for mixing and mastering.
 
Or, instead of muting effects, you can temporarily bypass them all, by hitting 'E' on your computer keyboard to bypass them, then hit 'E' again to again process using the effects.
 
Give the above some thought, and perhaps a try, and see if that helps.
 
Bob Bone
 

Is that i5 a quad core?
 
What is your interface?
 
A modern interface is required to do low latency.
 
I'm using 8.1 myself but win7pro is supposed to do more tracks and all that.
 
 
The lower the latency the harder the machine has to work so you have to find a compromise between workload and speed.
People who use a lot of processing do change their latency for the task they're doing.
 
 
 

An easy way to see what Sonar is taxing on your computer is the Performance Module. Right click the Control Bar (the bar at the top where the Transport and other modules are) and select Performance Module until it appears. This will likely replace one of the other modules so if you don't want to lose a necessary module while using the Perf Module do the Right Click/Select action on the module you need the least and that one should be the one replaced.
 
The Perf Module has four indicators. One for CPU, one for RAM, one for available disk space and one for the read/write capacity for the hard drive.
 
The CPU will have multiple lines representing your computer cores. If any of these hit max you are overtaxing the CPU and need to adjust you buffers or use some resource saving methods to get it into an acceptable range.
 
The RAM is just a plain bar meter. If it starts maxing out you are overloading the RAM. Freeze or bounce some synths or change your buffers.
 
The disk space stuff just shows how much space you have left. If it gets too full your computer in general will just start screwing up so you need to remove some data or buy another/bigger hard drive.
 
Then there is the HDD icon for read/write. This will change colors if you are moving to much data from the disk or vice versa too fast. Red is bad and will likely cause an engine stop/dropout. If this happens you go into Preferences and increase the Read/Write cache settings. This will give your hard drives a bit more time to catch up to Sonar. Only increase this as much as necessary. Make sure your hard drives are running at 7200RPM or more as that is the optimal HDD speed for audio. SSD drive are way faster.
 
Things you can do to minimize resource consumption.
 
Raise your buffers while mixing/editing. Latency does not matter when you do these things and they are generally more resource intensive. Only lower them to just above the point of problems (keep an eye on the perf module). Sometimes you just gotta deal with a little latency.
 
Freeze tracks/synths. This will temporarily bounce effects and synths to audio to take the load of the system. When you are done recording click the Freeze button again and they will return to their original state.
 
Bounce tracks. This is permanent but will free up resources like freeze does. Only do this if the track is complete and you no longer need to make any parameter changes.
 
Archive unnecessary tracks. This will take the tracks completely out of the mix. Use for anything you do not need to hear anymore like bed tracks. You can use this in conjunction with the following...
 
Create a stereo backing track of the project to record to and archive all other tracks while recording. Just bounce/mixdown all the tracks to a new track and archive the rest. Now your system is only processing that one track and whatever you are working on reducing resource consumption.
 
Lots of other stuff you can do but with all that you should be able to keep working.
 
There are system tweaks that can be done as well but maybe you've already done that so let us know.

Awesome Beepster.  I'll check this stuff out and give an update.
 
Do you know how I check if my Hard Drive is running at 7200Rpm? 
 
It's a WD green 500 gb 64mb cache Sata III. 

Oh and if you have the actual model number for the drive you should be able google it to find out the speed on sites like Tom's Hardware, New Egg or even Amazon in the product descriptions.
 
And as long as we are on the subject IF you choose to go the mechanical HDD route you might want to look at the 10,000rpm ones instead of the 7200rpm ones I mentioned earlier. I did not know when I built my system that they built ones that fast otherwise I would have bought those instead. Still 7200rpm is generally the accepted base line for DAW drives.
 
Full disclosure: I am not a computer tech.

Here is the model number:  WD5000AZRX
 
I couldn't find it on the website, but looking at the other specs I see what you mean.  I think I bought it because it said that it was 'quiet'.  Black or SSD would have been better.  Wasn't very confident I could even get the computer up and running...  Maybe I'll upgrade.  Thanks!

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236155
 
Under the Specs for RPM it says "IntelliPower" instead of an actual speed. lol that's helpful.
 
I'm assuming that means it is always fluctuating speed based on usage. You do not want any of your hardware doing that with audio. That's how dropouts happen. Just like you should go into Windows Power Management and set everything to "Always On" or whatever. Power saving features are just no good for a DAW.
 
For now I'd see if there is a way to make your current drive remain at a constant speed. Someone smarter than I would have to help you with that though.
 
Cheers.

 
It should also be noted that this may NOT be the problem or the ONLY problem. Just one thing to look at. If you look in the Computers section of this site you can peruse builds known to be stable with Sonar. I particularly like the ADK site because it has a "Parts Picker" page that let's you build your own system from the tested products they use. That's where I learned about all the stuff I needed for my build and I actually emulated one of their packages as best I could from various parts distributors. I'm in Canada so the shipping and taxes would have been WAY to much to simply buy a system directly from them.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/default.aspx

Beepster
Also if your drive IS the issue (and your problem sounds similar to one I had with a really HUGE project running off a single drive and required an increase in my read/write cache which you should do in the meantime) then the perf module HDD icon will likely reveal it. Yellow is good. Orange is working it. Red is the danger zone.

Could you post directions for this feature of setting cache levels...?
Just to make sure.
 
 
Also what about? :
Cache flushingBy default, Windows employs cache flushing. This means that the system will periodically instruct the storage device to transfer all data waiting in the cache to the principal storage media. When you select Enable write caching on this device, you turn off these periodic commands to transfer the data. Not all devices support all of these features.
 
 
So the check box is empty, "Turn off windows Cache flushing" is written, meaning it is one by default.
So on or off?
 
Could this be causing the hickups?
 

I use WD Black 1tb Drives at the moment, and have been looking in "My computer", right clicking the drives, and looking in properties...But I have not seen a cache/caching setting in those HD preference pages....does this mean indexing?...or    Quota?...should indexing be on or off...if so?.. and, in "HD Qouta" I select "enable Quota management", and then select " NO limit?"...Is that right?
 
Seems my Sonar x3d reporting monitor is orange...I think..,,   did not know it changed collours....and yellow  is Good...I would like to see yellow...if that is possible.
 
Thanks
 
 
 
 
 

Beepster
Hi Les.
 
Select Edit > Preferences > Audio-Sync and Caching. Under "File System" you will see the Record and Playback buffer controls. 256 is the default and I've seen many here say that for larger audio based projects that 500 or so is what you should set it at if things start going weird. I set mine almost to 1000 on the project I mentioned earlier before things got back under control but that is probably not normal or recommended.
 
Someone smarter than I will have to help you with that other stuff. Cheers.
 
Oh and I THINK it turns from yellow to orange but I may have just been hallucinating that so unless you are experiencing problems I wouldn't worry about it. Red is when you should start fiddling with stuff.

 
Hay Beepster Happy new year!

Oh... That is in sonar right.?..Just to make sure...so no one gets lost....Thanks.
 
Oh No...So what have I done?...I went to my computer, Right clicked on My Drives/Preferences/..and then went into "Qouta tab" page, selected the limit option, which ungrays the other options: set the limit to= no limit....is that ok????, or should I put it back to default?
 
And
 
I also want to know about indexing...on or off.?...cause one DAW camp Says off...and I need to know what Sonar needs...Cause PT is not going to be on this NEW system anymore!...so that tweak need not be necessary?
 
I think in this I will find resolve, and hope others do to.
 
Thanks for the read, and More mead is in need!.
 
Sir Les

Well not control panel, but "my computer", HDD icons, right click one, select properties...ect.
Cause there was mention of HDD icon..and I thought it was that process..and found only the quota tab to be relevant sort of in hard drive preferences to raising the cache or limit of something...So I put no limit...is that good?..what is the default level set to???...oh well I will put it back now......LOL
 
I found this.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/76002-disk-quota-set-space-limits-users.html
 
not that it is relevant to caching or anything, you are talking about..., Just learning what can be done...and not to do things done to undo...So I stay with the sheep.
 
Cheers!