jb101
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/23 20:20:40
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Saving the project and re-opening it solves the problem
Don't have much time to check it out now, but nothing seems to bring the sound on the track back - re-loading Concrete Limiter/ loading another ProChannel preset, etc., unless I re-load the project.
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jb101
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/23 20:21:42
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CakeAlexS
Hmm so this is reproducible with just the CL or other Pro Channel plugins?
Cheers..
Try it yourself and see what results you get.
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Splat 
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/23 20:22:41
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Well of course I would have if I was in the scenario to do so (in the past I've reproduced more bugs than you have had hot cakes), but I can't right now, that's why I asked... When logging the issue with Cakewalk it would be useful information to know. Anybody could answer this (it is a collaborative forums after all)... cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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gustabo
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/23 20:37:37
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jb101
Saving the project and re-opening it solves the problem
Don't have much time to check it out now, but nothing seems to bring the sound on the track back - re-loading Concrete Limiter/ loading another ProChannel preset, etc., unless I re-load the project.
The only way that I've found to bring the sound back is to load another instance of cl in pc, copy the settings and remove the silent one, pita but a work-around.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/24 01:49:22
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gustabo
The only way that I've found to bring the sound back is to load another instance of cl in pc, copy the settings and remove the silent one, pita but a work-around.
That's what I do as well. Cakewalk has one of my projects that exhibits this behavior but they just can't reproduce it and I can't give them foolproof steps to reproduce. However, we're having a dialog where they're asking me questions about my setup so we can see where the differences or "pain points" might be. It has to be something weird, but capable of happening in the normal course of events...I suspect this will end up being one of those " if this and this and this and this if this, then it happens" kind of things.
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ston
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/24 07:07:53
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This sounds very much like a race condition bug to me. They can be incredibly rare/intermittent, very hard to track down and often dependent upon system conditions at process start-up time, sometimes even dependent upon a sequence of events and timings which occur during the process's run time.
I have a similar thing happen with my favourite EQ, the Fruity Parametric EQ 2. Very, very rarely, it'll load with a completely black UI. At that point everything works OK (but it's impossible to use), and any attempt to unload the instance or load another results in a crash of the Sonar application.
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gustabo
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/24 07:18:38
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Anderton
gustabo
The only way that I've found to bring the sound back is to load another instance of cl in pc, copy the settings and remove the silent one, pita but a work-around.
That's what I do as well. Cakewalk has one of my projects that exhibits this behavior but they just can't reproduce it and I can't give them foolproof steps to reproduce. However, we're having a dialog where they're asking me questions about my setup so we can see where the differences or "pain points" might be. It has to be something weird, but capable of happening in the normal course of events...I suspect this will end up being one of those "if this and this and this and this if this, then it happens" kind of things.
Craig, have you tried my steps? Insert cl on a track and save a pc preset. Load that same preset that you just saved on the same track and the cl may mute...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Splat
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 17:10:48
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gustabo
Craig,
This may be reproducible, insert cl on a track and save a pc preset.
Load that same preset that you just saved on the same track and the cl may mute...
Happens to me.
Hmm could not repro, what am I doing wrong? 1) New blank project with Sonar X3E.2) Drag in audio from the browser creating an audio track3) Loop the sample4) Bring up console view.5) Remove all Pro channel modules except quadcurve.6) Add Concrete Limiter 1.0.1 and adjust settings7) Save as Pro channel preset8) Remove Concrete Limiter9) Add the recently saved Pro Channel preset to the same track.Also tried it without step 8. Thanks...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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jm24
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 17:53:01
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Any correlation to position in chain? (Before/after other particular effects.)
Any correlation to CL settings/preset? (when saved as PC preset.)
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gustabo
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 20:05:22
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CakeAlexS
Hmm could not repro, what am I doing wrong?
1) New blank project with Sonar X3E.
2) Drag in audio from the browser creating an audio track
3) Loop the sample
4) Bring up console view.
5) Remove all Pro channel modules except quadcurve.
6) Add Concrete Limiter 1.0.1 and adjust settings
7) Save as Pro channel preset
8) Remove Concrete Limiter
9) Add the recently saved Pro Channel preset to the same track.
Also tried it without step 8.
Thanks...
Been doing a lot of digging around to find a 100% reproducible scenario between my daw and laptop and this is what I found: 1) Insert Kontakt as a soft synth (not simple instrument track) and record some midi 2) Insert Concrete Limiter on the audio track of Kontakt in Pro Channel 3) Save the Pro Channel preset 4) Reload the saved Pro Channel preset 5) Audio is muted by Concrete Limiter Btw, both my desktop daw and laptop are running Win7 x64 and Sonar X3e x64... Never tried it in console view, I tend to prefer to use track view.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 21:08:09
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Thanks for doing some more digging - if nobody else gets a chance to try it out, I will be able to test the above steps in an hour or two. My son is doing some recording at the moment (cool).
Bob Bone
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Splat
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 21:19:26
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Thanks. I'm in bed sleeping whilst reading this on my tablet. If reproducible it would be nice to try another PC plugin as well, that will rule out if it's an issue specifically with the CL or not... Cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/25 22:13:29
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gustabo
Been doing a lot of digging around to find a 100% reproducible scenario between my daw and laptop and this is what I found:
1) Insert Kontakt as a soft synth (not simple instrument track) and record some midi
2) Insert Concrete Limiter on the audio track of Kontakt in Pro Channel
3) Save the Pro Channel preset
4) Reload the saved Pro Channel preset
5) Audio is muted by Concrete Limiter
Btw, both my desktop daw and laptop are running Win7 x64 and Sonar X3e x64...
Never tried it in console view, I tend to prefer to use track view.
Why I love this forum... There is a known issue with loading the same preset that includes the CL and something else (don't recall what right now) in multiple places. However, you seem to be saying this can happen with only one preset replacing itself. In all the instances I can think of where this happens in my setup, either the track was cloned from another track, thus bringing the ProChannel "preset" with it, or brought in as part of a track template. I think we're getting closer...
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jm24
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/26 00:41:00
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CakeAlexS
I'm in bed sleeping whilst reading this on my tablet.
Yea. I should be too.
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/27 00:41:46
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I think I found another workaround. If someone experiences this issue, please try the workaround and let me know if it solves your problem:
1. Right click on the misbehaving CL and chose Remove Module.
2. Hit Ctrl-Z, and it will return without being pegged.
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Pastacrow
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/28 01:34:51
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Ha ha!! Maybe I'm getting somewhere. I have found a 100% reproducible way of getting the Concrete Limiter to do this  (see picture) every time! My Normal Template has Concrete Limiter engaged as a module in the Pro Channel. If I open a new file and then either remove the CL module and insert a new one, OR use the replace function to replace the existing one with another version of CL, it will do what you see in the picture every time. However, if my template does not contain the CL module, but I only add it after opening a new file, then replacing or removing and inserting a new instance will NOT produce the result you see. Does anyone else get the same scenario?
Sonar Platinum (Lifetime!) + Samplitude Pro X3 Suite + Presonus Studio One 3(previously Cakewalk & Pro Audio 3,5,6,8,9 | Sonar 2,3,5,6,8,8.5 | Sonar Producer X1,X2,X3E )Intel Core i7-4790 / 3.6 / 16 GB RAM240 GB SSD / 2.0 TB HD / 2GB Nvidia GTX750ti / Windows 8.1 x 64bit UAD Apollo Twin USB / Roland Octacapture
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gustabo
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/28 10:10:57
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I have no cl in my project template but I do have it in a track template. Works as expected if I insert a track based on a track template but mutes when I reload the saved pc preset that includes cl in pc.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Splat
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/29 20:25:27
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CakeAlexS
Hmm could not repro, what am I doing wrong?
1) New blank project with Sonar X3E.
2) Drag in audio from the browser creating an audio track
3) Loop the sample
4) Bring up console view.
5) Remove all Pro channel modules except quadcurve.
6) Add Concrete Limiter 1.0.1 and adjust settings
7) Save as Pro channel preset
8) Remove Concrete Limiter
9) Add the recently saved Pro Channel preset to the same track.
Also tried it without step 8.
Thanks...
gustabo
Been doing a lot of digging around to find a 100% reproducible scenario between my daw and laptop and this is what I found:
1) Insert Kontakt as a soft synth (not simple instrument track) and record some midi
2) Insert Concrete Limiter on the audio track of Kontakt in Pro Channel
3) Save the Pro Channel preset
4) Reload the saved Pro Channel preset
5) Audio is muted by Concrete Limiter
Btw, both my desktop daw and laptop are running Win7 x64 and Sonar X3e x64...
Never tried it in console view, I tend to prefer to use track view.
I followed it to the letter could not reproduce with Kontakt 5, 8 Channel (very latest) or Dimension Pro (which might be a better synth to test it with as it has less audio outputs and most people have it)... Cheers... :)
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/29 21:36:19
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Frustrating. Tried Gustabo's steps and - aha! It screwed up, just as he said it would. Perfect.
So then I did it again just to make sure, and everything worked. And worked the next time, and the next, and the next. Argh.
Going to try the Pastacrow method next.
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Splat
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/29 22:07:30
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I'm wondering if there's some specific pro channel plugin that's conflicting with the CL in additionl. I tried the steps with my default template and I tried it with just the Quadcurve the CL in the Pro Channel.
Cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/29 22:35:23
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Okay...I tried all the recipes given here and could get them to screw up sometimes, but not every time...frustrating. However, I think y’all got me started down the right path, because I came up with a variation on your themes. I’ve now done this like ten times in a row, including closing and re-opening Sonar and even re-booting the computer a few times, and this seemed to work every time. Can anyone verify?
1. Open a new project with the normal template.
2. Create a new audio track. Insert a CL into its ProChannel. FWIW only the PC master and CL buttons are enabled.
3. Create another audio track. Insert a CL into its ProChannel. FWIW only the PC master and CL buttons are enabled.
4. Drag some audio into both tracks from the browser and hit playback so the CLs get signal.
5. Select the first audio track and save the PC preset.
6. With the first audio track still selected, load any PC preset other than the one you saved. Play some audio.
7. Now load the PC preset you saved in (5)
8. The PC opens in its full limiting/muted state. Or at least it has for me...
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Dan Cate [Cakewalk]
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 15:04:30
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/09/30 18:42:07
Hi Folks,
We're currently looking into this issue with the Concrete limiter. With your help we've been able to reproduce this issue in house and are investigating a solution. At the moment it looks like we may need to update the Concrete Limiter ProChannel module.
In the meantime, we find that the CCL can still be used successfully by simply adding it directly to the ProChannel strip. Many users report having no issues with the CCL using this method. To reduce or eliminate your exposure to the issue I recommend not using ProChannel presets or using Project or Track Templates that include the Concrete Limiter. I also recommend that if you do run into the issue with current projects please save, quit Sonar, and reopen the project rather than replacing the Concrete Limiter module. Re-opening projects in most cases will correct problem. In our tests, adding or replacing the module can actually expose the issue more regularly. Freezing tracks that are persistent with this issue is also recommended.
Thank you Craig and everyone who participated in this thread and bringing this to our attention! If you have any questions or concerns, please let me know.
Thanks! Daniel Cate [Cakewalk]
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Anderton
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 15:10:32
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Wow Dan, that's great news. This is exactly why using Sonar feels more like a partnership than the usual company/user relationship. I suspect this will become even more of a partnership with the forum restructuring that includes all the new feedback options.
Also thanks for the tip on the right way to do a workaround while you continue your investigations.
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gustabo
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 16:42:20
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Glad you could reproduce it Dan and I'm glad that I finally got around to filing a bug report last week...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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mettelus
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 18:52:35
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Thank you for the post Dan! It also sheds some light on why I have never seen the issue as I have always inserted it and never saved presets/templates including it. Just goes to show that workflow can make a difference in troubleshooting.
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Splat
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 19:15:39
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Pastacrow
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Re: Concrete Limiter Question - Anyone Experience this Issue?
2014/09/30 21:35:28
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woohoo! Light at the end of the tunnel!
Sonar Platinum (Lifetime!) + Samplitude Pro X3 Suite + Presonus Studio One 3(previously Cakewalk & Pro Audio 3,5,6,8,9 | Sonar 2,3,5,6,8,8.5 | Sonar Producer X1,X2,X3E )Intel Core i7-4790 / 3.6 / 16 GB RAM240 GB SSD / 2.0 TB HD / 2GB Nvidia GTX750ti / Windows 8.1 x 64bit UAD Apollo Twin USB / Roland Octacapture
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