Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000

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JWalsh
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/02 06:04:49 (permalink)
Thanks again guys for all the suggestions.

adrian4u - I'll trying unbinding the MIDI drivers using that Korg utility, it sounds like it's worth a try. The steps that you list to connect the unit sound like exactly what I'm already doing I'm afraid, so I know that's not the problem.

FastBikerBoy - I'll try a couple more driver install/uninstalls, and see if that kicks it into life. If it wasn't for the fact that I had it working once I'd just put it down to a broken BCF2000 and cut my losses.

I realise that "Tr" just indicates that the unit is connected - but the fact it stayed in Track mode after I closed Sonar, and that Sonar would subsequently connect to it just fine, makes me wish I could somehow force the BCF2000 into that mode.

Also, I hope to find some other software to try out with the unit. In all the searching of the net that I've done, the few people who seem to be having similar problems to me all report that it's only Sonar which has caused them problems, and the unit connects fine to other software like Reason.
post edited by JWalsh - 2011/12/04 04:40:02
#31
adrian4u
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/02 06:16:07 (permalink)
JWalsh - I tried to explain this "USB-MIDI" issue in another post. It's like you have limited number of devices (driverd)  that can be "virtually" binded to one USB port, and to all the ports in general.

If you change USB port where your device is connected, system installs drivers again - to NEW USB PORT, and don't delete old binding. So it's easy to make system "full".
I had some issues with it, my friends too and the best (and only) way was this small utility from KORG. It makes something with registry maybe, I don't really know and I don't care - because it works!

And thanks to this util you can see even "Strange" things like your grapgic card with HDMI output can block some "virtual" USB ports with its audio drivers.
This is another issue and as far as you don't use HDMI audio output it's good to make ANY HDMI audio outs INACTIVE in Windows System Manager.

Another thing - in System Manager too - is going to USB ports and turn off energy saving on all the ports.

In a fact it's basic system optimalisation, but you vcan do it by yourself with no danger of malfunctions.

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
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#32
JWalsh
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/04 17:05:47 (permalink)
Okay, thanks for all the advice guys, but unless anyone has any more tricks up their sleeves, I think it's time I gave up on this.

I tried a couple more driver installs / uninstalls, but Sonar still stubbornly refuses to connect to the BCF2000 as a Mackie control surface, despite the fact it's connecting over USB and sending MIDI data perfectly.

That Korg utility is very handy, thanks. I deleted all sorts of useless entries that were clogging up the system. Sadly, that didn't help Sonar to connect either.

One last thing I would like to try is connecting the BCF2000 to other software, just so I know for my own peace of mind that Sonar is the problem. But I don't have any other software that will use the BCF2000 in Mackie mode. Does anyone know of any that I could download a freeware or trial version of?
#33
ba_midi
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/04 19:52:25 (permalink)
Anderton


This is reaching waaaaaaay back into the memory banks, but I seem to recall the BCF2000 had an affinity for the USB port in which it was first installed. If I tried to use it with a different port, it wouldn't work. Might have been an XP thing, though...

I didn't read this whole thread - so maybe this was covered -- but I had to make sure "Sysex" was turned on in the options for my BCF to work - and had to load a project.


The sysex was the trick for me basically. I had it turned off previously.









Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#34
FastBikerBoy
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 02:32:58 (permalink)
Good call Billy, I'd forgotten all about that.
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adrian4u
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 08:08:11 (permalink)
I never heard of it - where you turn on or off? in SONAR?

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 10:00:33 (permalink)
Preferences->MIDI->Playback & Recording
#37
JWalsh
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 12:30:44 (permalink)
Cheers Billy, that sounded worth a go, but when I checked Sysex was already enabled in my Sonar Preferences. I assume that's where you meant to turn it on, rather than somewhere on the device itself?
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ba_midi
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 13:03:43 (permalink)
JWalsh


Cheers Billy, that sounded worth a go, but when I checked Sysex was already enabled in my Sonar Preferences. I assume that's where you meant to turn it on, rather than somewhere on the device itself?

Yes.  Hmm, are you in Mackie Mode on the uiit?  


I just had my apartement painted so I'm still putting my entire system back together (hopefully by tomorrow will be ready) and can look into this further.





Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#39
Efesta
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/05 19:42:19 (permalink)
It's always possible you have a defective unit but I don't think it's the case. So far our best assumption were the driver but after all the testing you did I don't think so anymore. I'm now pretty sure that it is just Sonar that is stuck on an invalid state about your BCF2000 driver. I'm not sure how or where but Sonar keeps track of those drivers which allows it to warn you if they disappear or reappear (like shuting down the unit while Sonar is running). So to prove it I messed around with my config and the BCF2000 until I could reproduce your problem. Which I was able to do eventually: have a"Mackie Control" surface defined with a BCF2000 driver as IN and OUT but stuck in "connecting" mode with "ncso" on the display of the BCF2000. I'm not entirely sure how you force Sonar to reset the state but here's something I'd like you to try.
 
  1. Create a new project. Delete all control surfaces, save it and exit Sonar.
  2. Restart Sonar. Make sure the BCF2000 drivers are active and checked in MIDI devices. Then add a "Mackie Control" (make sure it's not the C4 or XT one) with BCF2000 as IN and OUT. In all likeliness you should get stuck in Connecting mode as usual. Save the project and exit Sonar.
  3. Restart Sonar. If it does not connect then make sure the BCF2000 drivers are still active and checked, and make sure the surface still has BCF2000 as IN and OUT. Again save the project and exit Sonar.
  4. Restart Sonar and I'm willing to bet that this time it will connect and your BCF2000 will switch to track mode.
Good luck!
 

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#40
JWalsh
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/06 18:00:13 (permalink)
Efesta, you are an absolute genius. :)

I'm not entirely sure what part of your procedure did the trick, but I followed your instructions to the letter, and managed to get Sonar to connect to my BCF2000 for the first time in days.

Unfortunately this hasn't resulted in a permanent fix. As soon as I turn the BCF off and on again, Sonar is once again unable to connect to it properly, and I have to go through the whole procedure again. I'm not entirely sure what part of the procedure did the trick either - I need to do some more experimenting to narrow down the possibilities. I think the fact that I turned the unit off while Sonar was running may have been part of the solution.

Thank you for the help, I'd pretty much given up hope of ever getting it working until I saw your post. I'll report back here if I find out any more, or if I manage to establish an easy way to kick it into life.
#41
Efesta
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2011/12/06 19:27:36 (permalink)
You're welcome!
 
Well in reality I never turn my BCFs off so it is possible the same situation exists with everybody
 
I noted that when Sonar is running, if you turn the BCF off, it will prompt you to reassign the surface. I always answer NO in order to maintain the existing config valid. I have a feeling if you answer YES that it might be one way of creating your situation. In my case if I turn the BCF on right away, within 20 or 30 sec. Sonar will prompt again and ask if it should add the new found driver. As soon as I answer YES (or OK maybe?) then it connects right away and the BCF goes in track mode.
 
FBB mentioned it at some point, there is definitely a sequence in play here. I know for sure that the BCF has to be ON before you start Sonar and the saved Control Surface config has to be valid because Sonar initialize all Control Surfaces before you even open a project. If Sonar detects anything wrong at that stage it will likely flag the config and maybe even the driver as faulty and I'm not sure there is a way to reset it without a restart. Now I agree that it does not explain why you end up needing that many restart to get a complete reset.
 
Let us know if you find a better way to fix it.
post edited by Efesta - 2011/12/06 19:34:03

Dell XPS i7-2600 3.4Ghz, 8G RAM, 2 HD, Win7/64; Sonar Producer Expanded X1d-64; NI Komplete 8 Ultimate; Roland Octa-Capture 96kHz; Behringer BCF2000(2x), BCR2000, FCB1010; Guitars:  PRS Studio, Martin 000-42 Marquis, 000-28EC w/Anthem, 00-18SH, D12X1, Takamine C128;  Keys: Yamaha CS1x, Roland JP-8080;
#42
agincourtdb
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2012/02/06 10:59:29 (permalink)
adrian4u


Anderton - there's a smart tool which allows you to "unbind" USB-MIDI drivers from USB ports. You can find it into USB-MIDI driver package from KORG. It works perfectly. 

Is it the driver package on this page?
http://www.korg.co.uk/downloads/driver/dl_driver.asp


#43
adrian4u
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Re:Connecting Sonar X1 with Behringer BCF2000 2012/02/07 08:57:53 (permalink)
yup - it ahould be there. Install, then go to folder in START menu, choose icon described "uninstall KORG USB-MIDI controller" - or something like this. Launch it, then in program options choose to show all the drivers. Next - check those failed, broken or unneccesarry. And uninstall them............... after rebooting computer you can install your controller drivers once again. BTW - CASE WITH BCF - sometimes after turning it on and launching Sonar - Sonar don't see BCF - it's because SOMETIMES in system - BCF canges it's name (or system changes BCR2000 sescription). Sonar is silly and doens't recognise controller under new or modified name.

Phenom II x6 1100T (OC to 6x 4,1gHz), 8gB DDR3/1600gHz RAM, Win7/64; SONAR Producer X1c; Korgs: Z1, M50, Triton Rack, TRinity Rack; NI Maschine; Behringer BCF-R2000; MOTU 828mk3 FW; Edirol Edirol UA-1000; guitars: Cort Z-Custom, LAG JET100 totally customed, Cort SFX-DAO; some other music toys, one very musical cat 
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Be patient for newbie ;)
#44
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