cmusicmaker
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/17 15:43:25
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ORIGINAL: dgkenney
But..here's my question. Seems like at least a couple of you are down on rewire. How come? I never used rewire until I got P5V2. I'm loving it  It works flawlessly on my P4 2.8 with 1 gig memory and allows me the "best of breed" in midi and audio composition tools. P5V2 for midi and Live/Sonar/Cubase for audio/mixing/mastering.
So how come you, (my esteemed colleagues  ) don't care for it?
Dan
For me I would just prefer to use one package if possible instead of two. It's just easier to manage. I have Sonar and P5v.2 P5v.2 is simply quicker to use to create patterns and the Groove matrix has no equal in Sonar. So once I have done my initial work in P5.v2 then I rewire into Sonar. Dimension and Psyn II, as expected, work perfectly well in Sonar but as Micheal Hoover said during the P5v.2 video "its that feeling that you get" Project 5 just seems easier and has a clearer layout than Sonar. If I want to create and possibly even complete the whole production process, I can now do it in P5v.2, it certainly has all the toys. But as I am also producing surround material, Sonar gets the nod for post production and music to picture. If Project 5 v.2 could be used as a DXI as well as keeping its rewire functionality to keep other users happy, that would be great. FLstudio has this flexibility. My needs are two fold anyway convering music production and post production, so I guess I need Sonar and P5v.2 but I would prefer the DXi approach. Funny though because the process of bouncing a rewire application is identical to bouncing a synth in Sonar unless I have missed something so, using P5 rewired or as a DXi is not that big a deal. I think Project 5 automatically loads up if you save a Sonar project with P5 rewired into it. So Cakewalk have blurred the line almost completely between using it as a DXi like FL or rewired so it's a minor issue for me at this point really 
post edited by cmusicmaker - 2005/06/17 16:15:40
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riffpumpa
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/17 16:08:00
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ORIGINAL: xylyx
ORIGINAL: dgkenney
But..here's my question. Seems like at least a couple of you are down on rewire. How come?
It's hard to express why I don't like it. Part of it is that it was really developed as a workaround way of linking up Rebirth with Cubase years ago. VST, DX and AU are much better ways of using synths/fx within various sequencers and Rewire just seems clunky and dated by comparison. In the end, Rewire was just an audio version of MidiYoke...I just feel as if I am working with two apps that are tethered together with Rewire. I would probably have slightly less problem with Rewire if it at least allowed the host app make the slave open the appropriate file that is associated with the project; it's ridiculous that a host can save and restore all the appropriate parameter settings from all the DX/VST plugins in a song, yet it can't even save/restore the song file in the slave...
Eloquently stated. To me, it's just a virtual patch cable. Another Reason I shelved Reason.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/17 16:16:49
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Take a look at the picture here (it's a link to one of the screenshots from Cakewalk's P5 product pages. You'll see on the nPulse, DS864 and Velocity tracks that, next to the gain slider, is a small square with a number in it; this number indicates which output of the synth is currently controlled by the gain, pan, width mute and solo controls in the track pane. If you left-click and hold over this number and then drag up and down, you can switch between the various outputs of the synth. You'll notice that when you do this, the track inspector (that houses all your effects chains etc) on the left of the screen will change for each output. Haha. I never noticed them (effects chains etc) changing for each output. OK. Project 5 V2 is perfect now. The thread is now officially closed.
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wrench45us
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/17 16:24:17
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I may be off-base on this, but I think the advantage of using P5 Rewired into Sonar is the ability to get your tracks (and/or busses and/or master out) to separate tracks. That's really ideal for mixing/mastering with assignment to Sonar's virtual mixing console.
Where it's awkward for me is I really only want audio tracks from P5 to get to Sonar. I really don't want aux bus 1-4 and master out.
While P5 as a DXi in Sonar initially sounded very good to me (maybe I'm ignorant) but I don't know how one could get from there to setting up tracks per device chain to virtual mix bus. FLS does have a multi-out Dxi. P5 would have to have something along the same lines for P5 as DXi to get to my idealized configuration.
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xylyx
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/17 16:35:29
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ORIGINAL: cmusicmaker
I think Project 5 automatically loads up if you save a Sonar project with P5 rewired into it. So Cakewalk have blurred the line almost completely between using it as a DXi like FL or rewired so it's a minor issue for me at this point really
Sonar will load up any Rewire app that is used in a project, but it won't load the song file within the rewired application...it may not seem a big deal, but it just furthers the 'two app' feel when it could be so much better integrated. ORIGINAL: wrench45us
I may be off-base on this, but I think the advantage of using P5 Rewired into Sonar is the ability to get your tracks (and/or busses and/or master out) to separate tracks. That's really ideal for mixing/mastering with assignment to Sonar's virtual mixing console.
Where it's awkward for me is I really only want audio tracks from P5 to get to Sonar. I really don't want aux bus 1-4 and master out.
While P5 as a DXi in Sonar initially sounded very good to me (maybe I'm ignorant) but I don't know how one could get from there to setting up tracks per device chain to virtual mix bus. FLS does have a multi-out Dxi. P5 would have to have something along the same lines for P5 as DXi to get to my idealized configuration.
It shouldn't be any different from any other multi output DXi. You would just have (not sure whether there is a limit on the number of outputs a DXi can have), say, 16 outputs from the DXi version and any synth/audio channel could be routed to any of these outputs...these would appear in Sonar the same way as any DXi's outputs would and you could then route the outputs to any busses or channels you wanted...
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harmony gardens
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/18 02:06:08
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But..here's my question. Seems like at least a couple of you are down on rewire. How come? I never used rewire until I got P5V2. I'm loving it It works flawlessly on my P4 2.8 with 1 gig memory and allows me the "best of breed" in midi and audio composition tools. P5V2 for midi and Live/Sonar/Cubase for audio/mixing/mastering.
So how come you, (my esteemed colleagues ) don't care for it?
Dan
Well, Dan, you may have caught me on this one, as I haven't tried rewiring a project since Sonar 3, and Project 5 Ver 1, so I may be judging it unfairly. What formed my "opinion" (which is always open for change) was definately before freeze track. I have many different workflows for different things, but one thing I like to do is play and sing ballads. I was trying to record a vocal audio track in Sonar, while simultainiously recording the keyboard track in Project 5. What I found was that you couldn't link the record buttons for both programs simultaniously, which made it impossible to do what I wanted. So,,, I recorded the instrument in P5 separately, and then I found that rewiring the two programs together used so many resources, that I could only do a couple of synth tracks before I got dropouts. This is when I developed the "dream" of having the two programs blended together, which started me on my little personal mission to see if anyone else felt like I did about it. Enter Sonar 4 with freeze track, etc. Now it was a no brainer,,, Sonar became my main host, and Project 5 sat on my hard drive until now, with version 2. Since version 2 has audio I thought I would give it a go. I've been finding that while I absolutely LOVE P5 ver 2 for MIDI,,, that I miss some of the audio features, (which I have pretty well documented) After using Project 5, ver 2, the MIDI functions in Sonar feel so lunky to me. How you gonna keep em down on the farm, now that they've seen Paris. LOL I haven't tried rewiring Sonar 4 to Project 5 ver 2, so your point is well taken. Basically, I found while rewiring the two programs together before, that I didn't have enough recources on my P4 2.8 1GB System to do anything worthwhile, and abandoned it. With freeze track now in both programs, I may find it works better. I will give it a try. That said,,, I still think that a Project 5 Producer Edition would be the "answer" for me.
post edited by harmony gardens - 2005/06/18 02:14:13
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xylyx
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/18 05:26:41
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ORIGINAL: harmony gardens
Well, Dan, you may have caught me on this one, as I haven't tried rewiring a project since Sonar 3, and Project 5 Ver 1, so I may be judging it unfairly.
I don't think you will find it any different...the Rewire protocol hasn't changed in any significant way since Reason 1 came out (at least as far as I can tell) and Cakewalk's implementation is still the same as it always was, probably as there really isn't much flexibility available to developers as to how Rewire can be implemented...
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harmony gardens
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/18 07:43:50
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ORIGINAL: xylyx
ORIGINAL: harmony gardens
Well, Dan, you may have caught me on this one, as I haven't tried rewiring a project since Sonar 3, and Project 5 Ver 1, so I may be judging it unfairly.
I don't think you will find it any different...the Rewire protocol hasn't changed in any significant way since Reason 1 came out (at least as far as I can tell) and Cakewalk's implementation is still the same as it always was, probably as there really isn't much flexibility available to developers as to how Rewire can be implemented...
In the words of Dr. King,,,, I've seen the mountain. I may not get to the promised land,,,, I have this nagging pang that I miss Project 5 while I'm working in Sonar, and I miss Sonar, when I'm working in Project 5. I can't help thinking,,, wouldn't it be nice if they added this,, or that???? Wouldn't it be nice to have the best of both in one program?? In expanding on the Ala Carte thought,,,, if they made it possible to select which features you wanted to load, you could perhaps save some resources. For example, notation hindering your expirimentation??? Don't have it. Surround isn't your bag? Don't have it. There are a lot of Sonar users who don't really care about softsynths that much,,, and they focus on audio,,, there are appearently some P5 users who aren't fussy about the audio features,,, ok. What can I say??? But the bottom line is, Cakewalk has shown they can do audio "right" in Sonar, and they can do MIDI "right" in Project 5. Seems only logical that the next step would be to combine the best of both, don't you think?? I could live with a Sonar 5 Producer/Project 5 Edition. It would CRUSH everything else, IMHO.
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xylyx
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/18 07:53:34
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ORIGINAL: harmony gardens
It would CRUSH everything else, IMHO.
Including my credit card Not saying I wouldn't like to see a P5/Sonar love child, but I just can't see it happening any time soon, if ever, as it would just seem to be a bad move financially for Cakewalk...
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harmony gardens
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RE: Considering the feature overlap between Sonar4 & P5-II......
2005/06/18 07:56:20
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LOL As long as they hit your credit card, it's good for the company.
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