Helpful ReplyConsumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear!

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Royal Yaksman
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2013/08/29 11:12:46 (permalink)

Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear!

So I was doing the usual mix/edit/test on every speaker and headphone configuration I can get my hands on, when something occurs to me... The first thing most people (not all) seem to do with a purchased, professionally produced CD, is throw it on a stereo (or rip it and throw it on their mp3 players etc.) and despite the engineers agonising attempts to create perfect balance for that particular style of music. The consumer deems the mixing/mastering job to be sub-par and proceeds to pump the bass, mid and treble frequencies (sometimes) until the dials won't turn anymore. They legitimately don't seem to care that everything becomes a muddy, whompy, grainy mess and that the instruments/voices are at times pushed so far that their original quality no longer exists.
 
This leads me to one conclusion.
 
Apparently the average music consumers of the world have spoken and what they want is for us to forget all that expensive equipment and luscious plugin lists. Sure enough, taking some initial care in achieving some balance whilst mixing is possibly preferable? However, mix-agonising is completely unnecessary! Because then they would love us to import the stereo file, throw on an EQ and boost every frequency until it's distorting pretty much throughout the entire spectrum and burn the results! For (it would appear that) this is how the majority of listeners prefer the music! And how dare we try to sell something that "apparently" requires further engineering from the consumer?!!
 
So if there's a point to this post? I'd like to ask Cake to build a ridiculous, dynamics trashing, max-boost EQ. There are no dials. It has only one purpose/setting. And that purpose is to pump the living sh*t out of everything, so the consumer doesn't have to! I realise we can already do that via manual adjustment of existing plugs? But having a plugin set up for this specific task, would greatly save time! I've been tossing around names for this EQ and came up with: "Consumers Uliginous Nescient Tortious - EQ!" (Uliginous = Slimy, Nescient = Ignorant, Tortious = Wrongful) The acronym of this title should say it all: C*NT-EQ. It will hopefully be available for purchase as a VST from just about anywhere, for one easy payment of your slowly dying soul...
 
PS: This post probably belongs in the CH but I was already here and I'm too lazy to cut n' paste... Also if this type of rant has been done before, I apologise, but I couldn't be arsed searching either...

Royal Yaksman
 
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#1
Starise
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 11:26:31 (permalink)
 LOL. I don't think all consumers are like that. In some circles we are getting back to a more purist approach. There will always be extra large sub woofers and tone controls for the people who want extra of everything.
 
 Personally I don't want to make music for that crowd mainly. I'll leave that up to  Deadmau5 and the like. Dance and Trance..yeah it's all about the beat. 

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#2
robert_e_bone
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 11:40:39 (permalink)
Some of my son's alleged 'music' sounds like absolute crap on my car's system, even with my bass turned essentially all the way down it STILL is booming sub-sounds.
 
Perhaps we could have a compression intervention for some of those producers.
 
Bob Bone
 

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pbognar
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 11:49:39 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
Some of my son's alleged 'music' sounds like absolute crap on my car's system, even with my bass turned essentially all the way down it STILL is booming sub-sounds.
 
Perhaps we could have a compression intervention for some of those producers.
 
Bob Bone
 




When I get into my car after my kids have played their EDM or Death Metal music, I always have to turn the bass back down.
 
Maybe part of it is my upper range hearing loss, but the "relavent" consumers can't get enough exaggerated bass.
 
What the heck happened to music?
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sharke
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 11:55:30 (permalink)
The worst offenders are people who don't seem to mind that their speakers are buzzing. There's a guy around the corner from me who sells books from a table on the street and he has this little ghettoblaster playing hip hop so loud that the speakers rattle and it's a distorted mess. It makes my eyes water just to walk past, yet he's quite happy to listen to it all day. Some people really do have cloth ears. The same goes for people who listen to beat based music in cars so loud that the speakers distort. They don't care about fidelity in the slightest.

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#5
robert_e_bone
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:00:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jbow 2013/08/30 11:19:59
Growing up, we had MONOPHONIC albums, and FM radio was barely off the ground.  We learned to love fidelity because it was emerging as we were kids.
 
Bob Bone
 
post edited by robert_e_bone - 2013/08/29 12:09:21

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brconflict
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:05:19 (permalink)
I was thoroughly obsessed with Dolby Systems. When something was recorded on a cassette deck from vinyl or radio to a Dolby System, I always thought it sounded way more professional than any decks I had. Obviously, it wasn't Dolby that did it, but the decks that included Dolby Noise Reduction were in a higher class, and thus recorded better.
 
Anyone remember the Nakamichi Dragon?
 
But yeah, the abuse of the audio spectrum has driven us to sub-human standards.

Brian
 
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:20:13 (permalink)
Half-speed master of Steely Dan - heaven.
 
BUT, I also grew up with one of those scratch-and-play phonographs, where the needle was in the lid, and it would play when you closed it.
 
HORRIFIC.
 
But yeah, this crap now is just that, as far as sonic quality.
 
Bob Bone
 

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#8
FCCfirstclass
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:21:08 (permalink)
brconflict
I was thoroughly obsessed with Dolby Systems. When something was recorded on a cassette deck from vinyl or radio to a Dolby System, I always thought it sounded way more professional than any decks I had. Obviously, it wasn't Dolby that did it, but the decks that included Dolby Noise Reduction were in a higher class, and thus recorded better.
 
Anyone remember the Nakamichi Dragon?
 
But yeah, the abuse of the audio spectrum has driven us to sub-human standards.



Yup I do.  I was the proud owner of a Nak 1000 tri-tracer, the first 3 head cassette deck.  When I opened my studio, I bought a Tascam 122 3 head cassette deck with an external dbx noise reduction module.  It also recorded at 3 3-4ips for higher fidelity.  The dbx units were superior to the dolby NR in the studio.  I also used the dbx mods on my Reel decks.
Now, its throw the mp3 on the SDHD card and stick that into the boom box.  ugh

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And away we go!
#9
Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:22:41 (permalink)
First off, some consumers aren't interested on how the music sounds on their system, they are consumed about how OTHERS hear it on their system, from another car at a stoplight.
 
Second, they are compensating not for deficiencies in the mix or mastering, but for perceived deficiencies in their audio system. These will vary from system to system and you still need your tools to find the middle of the bellcurve of this aggregate "average system".
 
Third, I turn my visions into the best reality I can, because my expression is a higher priority than mass appreciation, because...in my opinion, the second can't come without the first... for long anyway, see "Milli Vanilli".
 
Fourth, I have a performance room adjacent to my main tracking room. Tracking room and both control rooms are set to mix and master from studio monitors, flat, accurate, average, etc. Performance room is for enjoyment and intake of expression. I EQ my own mixes there, to fit the room and my mood, and my current  Fletcher-Munson curve. If somebody wants to pay me for expressing myself, they can alter it however they see fit, for the enjoyment they compensated me to purchase.
 
All that said...I do question the intellect and sanity of some listeners, just as I am sure they question mine! If this thread produces a huge selloff of equipment, market glut, and basement pricing, I might toss a few pennies at surplus inventory if you all pay shipping. TIA!

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slartabartfast
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 12:57:03 (permalink)
I expect it is still best to provide the best substrate for user destruction if for no other reason than artistic pride. Should a cordon bleu chef stop trying because he suspects the diner will dump ketchup on his signature dish at the table? The tendency of listeners and less than perfect playback systems to alter the music is not new. Radio stations have done so from the dawn of radio time. It was hard to find a consumer stereo that did not have a "loudness" button even in the days of vinyl. The modern MP3 ripper software that "normalizes" the audio so that the guy with the plugs in his ears will not have to adjust the volume while jogging beside a freight train are just more of the same.
#11
Fog
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 13:04:32 (permalink)
remember some of the stuff is also mastered for playing in clubs = any trick to boost the volume without causing the limiter to cut / protect the speakers . that and mp3 players probably make up a big percentage of what stuff is played on.
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Chregg
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:16:47 (permalink)
"I was thoroughly obsessed with Dolby Systems. When something was recorded on a cassette deck from vinyl or radio to a Dolby System, I always thought it sounded way more professional than any decks I had. Obviously, it wasn't Dolby that did it, but the decks that included Dolby Noise Reduction were in a higher class, and thus recorded better." There was me thinking I was the only person as a kid who had that obsession
 
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burkek
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:23:25 (permalink)
Of more concern is that the majority of those listening to music these days are listening to tracks in a lossy format with a 5-10X reduction in filesize on sub-par earbuds worth (legitimately) just a few bucks.
 
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LunaTech
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:23:45 (permalink)
brconflict
I was thoroughly obsessed with Dolby Systems. When something was recorded on a cassette deck from vinyl or radio to a Dolby System, I always thought it sounded way more professional than any decks I had. Obviously, it wasn't Dolby that did it, but the decks that included Dolby Noise Reduction were in a higher class, and thus recorded better.
 
Anyone remember the Nakamichi Dragon?
 
But yeah, the abuse of the audio spectrum has driven us to sub-human standards.



Wow.. I remember the Dragon and the Autorevers RX 505 still sends me to my therapist. Also the Aiwa M800 and the Tandberg TCD 440a were awesome pieces of equipment. To me then it was really about the accurate reproduction of music and the emotional connection that was made when that took place. Technology was a useful means to that noble end.
 
I am now yearning for some Khorns...... powered threw  a McIntosh tube amp... sigh....

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#15
Guitarpima
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:32:16 (permalink)
I think this subject if more reaching than just music. Attention spans are far worse today than us forty something have and older ladies/gents had better attention spans than we did. It's all about having it fast and right now rather than patience. To me, I think this is where the problem lies.
 
Bob Katz talks about this quite a bit and you can find it on Youtube where Bob talks about the loudness wars. The Loudness War is essentially the crux of this thread but I don't think forgetting our tenant is the best way. We should continue to give the best mixes we can. If the consumer wants to eq it the way they want, so be it. All we can do is the best we can. We can't go into their homes or cars and show them how to work their audio systems. We can suggest things though.
 
When I was in college I had a friend over and he say's, "Can I fix your eq", I caught him before he got to it. What I did was turn it up to a louder level and had him listen. He agreed that he could hear everything and feel the bass and bass drum. Then I turned it down and pressed that Loudness Button and It bought the lows and high back at a lower level. He was one of those smiley face eq people. Now he knows better.
 
A lot of people don't know how the ear works and how fatiguing it is to listen to loud music. Maybe someone should start a Youtube series on how to set up your audio system in your home or car. With free apps for spectrum analyzers, they could be taught how to do it. Then maybe they will realize what a bunch of **** this loudness war is and demand better from the criminals behind it all. Which is us really or, rather people who demand it be louder by us.
 
Other than that, I have no idea what I'm typing about.

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konradh
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:37:47 (permalink)
So, Bob Bone, are you saying you were listening to Bennie Goodman on a crystal radio set made out of an oatmeal box?
 
I saw The Beatles live (I was a kid) and that is as much as I will date myself.

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Stipes Vigilo
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:37:59 (permalink)
Some of us know that our playback EQ's are for room compensation, not remix.
But I've also become aware that not all mixes from the individual producers use the same system or method to do it, and what they think is pleasing to their ear may not be to mine. Younger ears (generally below 30YO) are known to hear higher frequencies and maybe some of the 'bass bumping' helps compensate for that, but usually it's just so they can feel the music in their genitalia. Reducing a CD to MP3 quality also takes its toll on the recording. No one has the memory on their players to go full on .wav and so there's that compensation to deal with. Granted, some are just ignorant of anything musical and only want the instant gratification of vibration and social acceptance for playing the same styles in the same manner as their group. I think I just read an article from CW or Roland or Synthtopia about how there is no such things as 'Treble' music but almost everyone knows what 'Bass' music is.

Welcome to the new millenium.
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stevec
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 14:40:09 (permalink)
Geez... you guys are just old.   
 
I'm not sure I could ever part with my vinyl collection - most of which is circa the years those albums first came out all those decades ago - even though the only turntable I own is a USB version for digitizing.   But even back then, I remember we used to put matches up to woofers just to watch them blow out.  I guess that was our version of cranking the sub in the car.  Yet it still sounded so good.     Now I'm having flashbacks of those B&O straight arm turntables.... ahhhh.   
 
 

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#19
daveny5
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 15:47:51 (permalink)
I think what you're referring to is something Cakewalk already has: the Concrete Limiter
 
I've ripped all of my purchased CDs to a hard drive and now the CDs sit on the shelf used only as a backup in case the hard drive crashes. Kind of sad in a way, but I love the convenience of being able to pick any song or album at will or randomize the selection. Also, I can stream the music to my smartphone or my entertainment center. Times have changed. 

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#20
smead6608
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 22:01:54 (permalink)
Back in '73, my friend Sam had a shut-in uncle who was a hifi enthusiast. (By the way, the spell check alert squiggle under the word "hifi" is offensive to me.)  He knew I liked music so he invited me in to see his setup.  AR3a speakers, ARXA turntable, and a Marantz model 19 receiver.  What an epiphany.  It didn't get any better than that back then.  I have spent a lifetime trying to capture the impact this exquisite system had on my 16 y/o ears.  But I have come to realize that Sam's uncle, and perhaps myself included, are anomalies.  When most folks hear what I have spent to achieve audio nirvana--which by the way is peanuts compared to what some high end enthusiasts will spend--they look at me like I'm nuts: even though my system is the best sound reproducer they will likely ever hear.  I have to hand it to the record labels for offering recordings that are as good as they are given the complacency of the typical listener.  And I will guaranty you that if the kids in the '60s and '70s could have cranked the bass, they would have.  The iPads and skull candies are orders of magnitude better than anything imaginable when I was growing up as far as consumer electronics is concerned.  And let them have their EQ so they can crank the bass by themselves.  Maybe that will keep the pressure off the producers among us who have to balance consumer taste with so called good taste, and I can still purchase well balanced recordings for a while longer.
#21
Royal Yaksman
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 22:39:30 (permalink)
It just does my head in a bit, I'm afraid. I mainly do my own stuff but occasionally get requests to rearrange/remix stuff from local bands in my area. This mainly applies to younger-ish folk, 30 and under. And when they are sitting in on the session at some point they always get this look on their face and straight away I know what it is.

I ask, "You want to hear what this will sound like in your car or your home home stereo, don't you?"

They nod and all I do is whack Ozone or H-Eq on the master bus, with a quite ridiculous boost all freq setting, engage the sub and punch the crap out of the limiter. Within seconds they're grinning and bopping along, calling me a genius. *sigh*

I suppose if that's how they've heard music played their entire life? It's probably how they've come to expect it to sound...

Royal Yaksman
 
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#22
robert_e_bone
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/29 23:22:15 (permalink)
konradh
So, Bob Bone, are you saying you were listening to Bennie Goodman on a crystal radio set made out of an oatmeal box?
 
I saw The Beatles live (I was a kid) and that is as much as I will date myself.


No - but I DID own an actual 78 RPM recording of Sergei Rachmaninoff playing piano on his Prelude in C# Minor.
 
And cars I first owned only had AM radios in them, with single speakers.
 
And, I remember the switch in Batman to color.
 
And, while not Benny Goodman, in the 60's, as a kid, our family went to Disneyland, and we watched Tex Beneke and his band play all of the Glenn Miller stuff.  FABULOUS.  (He was a member of the original Glenn Miller Band, and took over as leader of it when Glenn died in a WWII plane crash).
 
And, I saw the Jackson Five in Chicago when MJ had a nose.
 
Bob Bone
 

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#23
Guitarpima
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 00:52:02 (permalink)
The recordings of the 70s had some of the warmest mixes.

Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
 
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#24
smead6608
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 02:23:07 (permalink)
...and all the coveted Beatles and Beach Boys vinyl were all cut in mono to fit the AM squelch boxes in dad's old ford falcon.  Mixed for AM car radio, huh!  ...talk about lipstick on a pig...
#25
daveny5
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 08:41:02 (permalink)
And I saw ZZ Top before they had beards!! (True..... in New Orleans). 

Dave
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#26
RickJP909
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 09:11:18 (permalink)
I think this explains it very well...
 


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#27
robert_e_bone
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 09:49:09 (permalink)
Now THAT is funny - and sad.
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
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#28
mmorgan
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 09:58:30 (permalink)
When I was a boy...and we liked it!


Mike

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#29
AT
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Re: Consumers Have Spoken, Clearly It's Time To Throw Away Your Gear! 2013/08/30 11:01:19 (permalink)
Funny, transistor radios used to be all the rage in the early 60s.  mono and the smallest speaker possible.  Didn't stop anybody back then from investing in superior hardware despite the distribuition flaws.
 
@

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there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#30
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