Control Experiment - suggestions?

I'm using Sonar X1 and some soft synths to produce instrumental electronic music.   Final results when listening outside my studio have not been good, with the songs really not sounding like the original wav at all.  This is not though a normal post about songs not translating well.   I would like to try and find the step along the way through my production process where I might be going wrong, the time where some mistake is made that causes the problem, or to find if any of equipment is responsible.

I wondered, if I record say a simple drum loop in Sonar, and nothing else - and follow my process to listening outside the studio on other media, and if that still sounds bad, well, I could eliminate mixing as the culprit?    

Normally I record the soft synth tracks as midi tracks in Sonar, then I bounce the tracks as audio.  I use mainly Izotope Alloy to adjust EQ etc on each audio track, adjust volumne/pan levels etc, before exporting as one stereo wave file.  I then bring that wav file into Izotope Ozone, tweak the EQ, adjust compression, and then limiting.   Usually there is quite a lot of limiting needed to get it to a reasonable volume.

Then, I'm taking this master wav file into iTunes, and dragging the track into my iPhone - from there I listen from the phone in my car, and also on a Bose Soundlink Bluetooth Mobile speaker.     

Any advice how to track what is the cause of the poor quality results welcomed.

Generally electronic stuff with synths will sound pretty good internal to the computer..... no mics and stuff involved. 

So that could mean that the way you are listening... the monitor speakers, the room, etc are the culprit that is throwing the mixing off. 

If the room is not properly set up (acoustically) and you have poor acoustics, or are using sub standard speakers or no speakers (headphone mix) you will naturally mix so it sounds good to you in that room , on those speakers, or headphones.... 
When you take it to a totally different room or speakers it is not mixed for that system and it sounds bad. 

The solution is to do acoustic treatment to the room and mix on studio reference speakers to get the flattest sound possible. You have to hear the mix "AS IT IS" not how the room affects it in order to get a mix that plays well on many different systems. 

I have ARC which helps, but is not the "Be ALL Cure ALL"  to a bad room.... It is however, my only solution at this time to my non-treated room. 

Learn your system and it's speakers regardless of how you mix.... 

Hi UltraBra. I produce a lot of quality instrumental electronic music and it has to go into a variety of mediums. In some ways it is a bit if a translation issue and it sort of falls into the same camp as getting any genre mixed tracks to sound good on a variety of systems. The answer to your question is that it is not just one thing but a lot of little things.

With electronic music you are dealing with synths and many of them have a very extended range of frequencies and can go very deep and very high too and can be bright. The same rules apply to getting individual tracks sounding good. They create way more issues sound wise right at the source. I try to:

1     Get them sounding as good as they can within the instrument itself. And that includes effects, filtering eg HP filtering etc. There is so much one can do before the sound even leaves the hardware device or the VST,

2     Look at how hardware devices are interfaced into the world. I feed my hardware synths into a very nice Samson mixer and it has got a few things going for it. One is a very cool HPF on the input channels and a nice EQ. Between these two things along I can completely reshape the sound of an incoming synth. Fine tune here to maximise the sound you are after.

3     As per standard production procedure keep an eye on your synth sounds at a track level. They may need some more slight filtering or EQ to bring out the best in the sound. Some synths can still have too much bottom end for their own good. Check it on nice main speakers with a good bass response. Often it is just the upper part of the sound you are really after. If you want to shake the floor be careful as to what synths are doing it. Control it too here right at the source. Things like 808 kick drums etc..Deep pads.. Check your velocity editing after you have played a part in or created a part. Make sure notes are of a similar velocity unless otherwise required to be otherwise. Print synth tracks to audio and go further with the dynamics processing on the parts. Compressors will often be needed to smooth part levels out further and keep certain things tamed and under control.

4     Get a great mix. Learn to balance things nicely. I bet your mixes are probably not half as good as the things you comparing them too. Listen and analyse great mixed tracks, do the same sorts of things. Use a single point source Auratone type speaker in mono at low volume to create perfect balances. Absolutely essential. Check up loud regularly at high volume on your main monitors for bass end and reverb levels.

5     Master your tracks correctly. I bet you are comparing un mastered poorer quality mixes to fantastically mastered great mixes. That will create a great divide and you are hearing it! Once you have got a great mix you then master well. This often means a further overall EQ fine tuning, cleaning up and filtering the bottom end a little more. The top end will be fine tuned as well. The compressor will even out and give your tracks that professional glue to the sound. Then final limiting will crank the levels up big time and right up to commercial levels.

If you do all this your final tracks will sound killer on everything you play them on. A great mix plus great mastering just transcends all the mediums they are played on. The is no magic potion for each medium just get greatness happening and it will sound great on everything. And that includes conversion to mp3. I pull levels down a bit before encoding to mp3. Choose a decent bit rate like 256 or 320 K/Bits per sec so that at least some quality is preserved. Make a full audio CD and test it in your car. When a track passes the car test it is perfect! The bass should be big and powerful without rattling my teeth. Mids and highs should be loud and punchy. Watch the bottom end for a great translation into ear buds.

Most of all the music should be great first, everything else will fall into place much easier. Here is the big one! Make sure your parts are interesting and weave in and out of each other. Keep an eye on what parts are playing what and what parts are silent when other parts are playing. Rather than just layer stuff up, try integrating the parts more in what I call serial phrasing. Think three parts making up one phrase or statement. This all effects the production later on and adds huge amounts of clarity (and interest) to your mixes. When mixing use the minimum voltage maximum illusion approach. ie pads can be very low in a mix and yet still be heard clearly. That type of thing.

ULTRABRA, if I were you I'd be finding out if Kalle is local to me and offer him a lunch and a beer in exchange for picking his brain! 

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....I am comparing my tracks mainly not to professional music, but tracks on Soundcloud that are similar-ish. 

That is one of your major issues right there. Most of the stuff on Soundcloud is amateur to say the least and the mix and mastering is far from good. You need to stop doing that!  There are way too many variables on people's music posted up on Soundcloud. Poor mixing and mastering being the main one.

You need to start listening to well mixed and mastered material in the same genre and not only that but you need to do it on your speakers in your monitoring environment. That way you will get to hear what great music sounds like on your system.

And when you are mixing and mastering you also have these quality reference tracks available at any time to be able to immediately switch to and compare.

Bottom end can be an issue but like normal music too your bass or bottom end needs to be sorted out as early as the synth sound itself, the track EQ etc and any HPF filtering that may be required and lastly just getting the right amount of bass in your mixes. Many people go wrong here and have far too much. Simple as that.  After getting what you think is the right amount of bottom end or bass in your mix try pulling down all the bass faders and then listen to your mix for 10 minutes without any bass parts present. Then after a while slowly bring the bass parts back in. You will often find the faders will be at a lower level than before once you get the right amount of bass bass back in your mix.

The small mono speaker down at low volume will really let you know when the bass parts are right. You need the right amount of mid range and high end material in your bass sounds and a little less of the deep subby stuff more than likely.

iTunes has got nothing to do with it. Like I said in my original post a great mix and mastered track will transcend all the mediums it ends up on mostly. I have done some great mixes and mastered tracks in my day and many have ended up on iTunes as well and the tracks ended up sounding great there. iTunes did not change a thing.