Control Surface compatibility updates?

So Sonar has some control surface presets in its database. Control surfaces that are mostly 5 to 10 years out of date.
 
Oh sure, they have their "Cakewalk Generic Surface" set-up, which is itself a very cumbersome, time-consuming, counter-intuitive and (at least in my experience) a hit-or-miss functionality. But, in this era of more advanced control surfaces that have greater compatibility with other DAWs (like PT, Logic Pro, Cubase, Ableton, etc etc etc), Sonar is really behind the curve on this.
 
I have a couple of very basic control surfaces, each of which took me hours to set up in Sonar (using the Generic Surface routine), and one of which I STILL can't use half the knobs or ANY of the buttons. WTF?
 
Cakewalk, please ... with all these monthly updates, would it not be possible to include preset updates for control surfaces that are currently on the market?

VanessaJ
So Sonar has some control surface presets in its database. Control surfaces that are mostly 5 to 10 years out of date.

There are several approaches:
* specialized program (not preset) for Sonar, which controller producer can provide. But they do not. From all devices on the market, only Presonus Faderport and Naktar Impact have that.
* "mackie mode". Normally implemented incorrectly/incomplete. But basic things are working (with incomplete implementation original Sonar plug-in has problems, but there is a mod of it)
* "generic" or "ACT MIDI" way. To prepare any "preset", someone has to have the device. Most devices are configurable, that means the preset will work with one particular device preset. Well, CW, producer or users can do this. Takes half an hour.
 

...But, in this era of more advanced control surfaces...

Apart from no longer writing documentation with communication details and declaring a controller "advanced", controller producers have not done much during last 20 years. In hardware, these controllers are still as dumb as they was. For some controllers, producers have written "advanced software". Customers pay for this software (on the order if not more than for the hardware). But if this software does not support particular DAW and is "proprietary", what can DAW programmers do?
 

I have a couple of very basic control surfaces, each of which took me hours to set up in Sonar (using the Generic Surface routine), and one of which I STILL can't use half the knobs or ANY of the buttons. WTF?

I do not know what you could do "hours" with Generic Surface. It is "one to one" mapping style, one control take 10 seconds at most. One hour - 360 control
So I can not recommend my own controlling software, it is miles more complicated, counter-intuitive, etc. then Generic Surface. But it supports any number of controls (also bi-directionally).
 

I do not know how CW was getting presets before.
 
And I agree that Generic Surface can be difficult to setup, typical reasons:
1) no understanding what and where hardware is sending. Before everything was documented. Now, for many controllers the documentation is like "for Ableton, do this...". And there is no Sonar section. In such case, a bit more advanced experience with MIDI is required.
2) Generic Surface does not show live what it is receiving from the hardware. And that is important to configure things correctly. The only strait possibility to do this in Sonar is to "record" MIDI track operating different control groups and then using Event view analyze which controls send to which port and which "mode" they have. Then set options in the Generic Surface according to that analysis.
3) "Default" presets on many keyboards are questionable. For example, some buttons and knobs can send the same CC messages. In such case only once control can be used since another is just a "duplication" of it from the DAW perspective. That normally can be solved by configuring keyboard using manufacturer utility or directly on hardware.
4) which should be the first... most users, me inclusive, "overseen" chapters 20 and 40 in the lengthy Sonar reference manual. Some just give up quickly then, some use what they could get working from "common sense" logic, some (me) even writing there own controller software. Reading the documentation can avoid that  
 
I have my own software, it is much more generic then "Generic controller". It has no limits in controls, shows incoming MIDI, allows bi-directional communications, device "chaining", etc. Basic setup is not so difficult, I have made "Startup preset" video.
 
But as I have written in (1) and (3), controllers can be rather "tricky" in what they are sending to computers. "Tuning" my software is a not easy task, with huge amount of possibilities it has huge amount of options.
 
So for everyone who is interested, I am providing "setup service". 30 minutes with Teamview+Skype and any (!) controller (till it is physically broken) will do basic operations like transport + strip control. More complicated cases can take a while to prepare off-line (at the moment pending is "all possible modes" old Yamaha Digital Mixer), but "startup" is a matter of minutes (even with Yamaha, which is sending information in such a form that "Generic controller" is unable to understand it all).
 
My software and the "service" are absolutely free, no viruses, no ads, not "calling home".
 
While there are already some presets for my software, created by users or in cooperation with users, CME and iCon are not in the list yet. With iCon I have rather questionable feeling from the Internet: qCon Pro claims they are working throw Mickie protocol. But there are many reports that something is wrong with that. On one of such question, there was a reply that they could not find the documentation for Mackie (really?) and so the implementation is there own imagination how it is working
 
So, if you are serious about your control surfaces functionality in Sonar, there is a (free) way to make it work. If you think that PT/Cubase/Logic/other is simpler way to solve that problem, I can only say that the functionality you can get out of controllers is more limited then in Sonar (till you are ready to program in C++/Javascript/Python, depending from which DAW you select... but in this case you could write you own controller in C++ for Sonar as well...).
 

I've posted about the control surface setups as a suggestion before.  Sonar should be able to detect and properly install control surfaces.    I also have Studio One 3 (got it with another purchase) and when I installed and set it up, it automatically detected and setup my Behringer X-Touch.   I had a lite version of Cubase and it too detected and installed the X-Touch.  

True Sonar will detect the X-Touch but there's still a couple of manual steps required to be able to use it.
Same way with my Frontier Tranzport.  Same steps as the X-Touch to be able to use it.  In Studio One 3, the first time I launched the program X-Touch was detected it installed it and it was fully operational.  I didn't have to do anything.  Same way with Cubase.
I don't think I had the Tranzport connected when I tried Studio One 3 or Cubase, I only connect it when I'm going to use it.
 

azslow3
 
I have offered you my help, you can get any or all 3 keyboards nice working with Sonar in time comparable with reading/writing into this thread. For free. And at you wish, even with non standard features/operations you prefer. I can not make better offer, sorry
 
You can also try to ask CW support to do this. I know, not so easy these days. And you need some luck to get someone who can (and will) do this on the other end of the wire.

 
I do appreciate the offer for help. But unless you're right there next to me saying "select that option/deselect this option" I'm not sure how you would be able to help me. I know how the ACT controller works - I've spent exhaustive hours working with my different controllers. It's wonderful when it does work. But inevitably, what does work with SOME of the controls, will NOT work with some of the other controls on the same controller. Well, except for my CME and iCon keyboards in which NONE of the knobs, sliders or buttons will work. VERY maddening.
 
What's also maddening is when you click the F1 "Help" option, what pops up is a several pages-long set of instructions, in tiny writing (I have to magnify the page to see the words better), and one of the first things you see is: "In Sonar 6.2, what you do is ... "
 
Sonar 6.2?? REALLY?

azslow3
 
Exactly that way! I am probably x000 km away from you, but the Internet make it possible.
You will need Skype so we can speak.
And you will need TeamViewer so I can control your computer (you will see what I am doing and I will explain each step). In case you do not want that, you can just share your screen over Skype so I can see what you are doing and "stear" your operations, but that is going to be way slower...
 

 
 That sounds doable ... except I'm out on the road far from home right now and half of my equipment is in a storage unit (including that stubborn CME keyboard). I'll keep this thread referenced for when I get back home after Christmas.
 
Thanks! :)