Leee
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Controlling input level on Microphone
I recently got a new computer, along with Windows 8-64 bit, and this is the first time I've had the opportunity to lay down some vocal tracks using Sonar X2a.
I use an M-Audio 1010LT audio interface to connect my microphone to the computer. But when I adjust the volume slider (or trim) on the Sonar audio track the only thing it affects is the audio level of what I'm hearing coming from the mic. The actual record levels stay the same (all too hot).
The only way it seems that I can adjust the actual recording level is by adjusting it in the software control panel for the 1010LT interface, which is not exactly a convenient, user-friendly way of doing things.
I have the Input Echo set to "ON", so I'm able to hear my vocals with the mix while I'm recording. And even though I have no efx on the track, it sounds like I've got a delay/echo efx on it.
Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I'm guessing it has something to do with how my Windows sound is configured. For this record input I have the "what you hear" option disabled.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:18:40
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SONAR has nothing to do with your recording levels, they are adjusted in the audio interface where the A/D converters are. AFAIK that's the way in most/all DAWs. They have no control over your soundcard. Some music software have a "fake" level control for adjusting the level between A/D and the audio track, but even then, if the audio comes clipped through the converters, it stays clipped, no matter what you do, or, if it's too low, raising the level raises the noise as well.
You need to have your buffers/latency set low enough, FX or no FX, even though audio really isn't very latency sensitive. The default ASIO latency is set at 50 ms, IIRC, and that is too high.
Set the track slider at 0 dB and adjust the input level in 1010 appropriately.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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garrigus
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:19:58
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:26:57
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You either have to use the trim knob on your audio interface or if it doesn't have one use a pre-amp, mixer or other hardware to attenuate the input level. The signal needs to be tamed BEFORE it hits the digital converters. If it is clipping before it gets turned into a digital signal Sonar can't do anything about it and even most interface software won't control it. Not sure if the 1010's have a trim knob but if so use that to set your level. Otherwise use a mixer. Then it's probably best to check the input level in the interface software to make sure it isn't clipping there THEN check Sonar for clipping... using the trim knob or mixer the whole way. Try to sing at the loudest volume you expect to be recording then turn it down a little from there. You can always turn things up in the mix but never after it is recorded. I learned all this the hard way. Good luck.
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:29:07
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Oh and disable windows sound or any other sound devices on your system. Use the 1010 exclusively for recording purposes or whatever interface you are trying to use.
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garrigus
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:33:12
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Beepster
Oh and disable windows sound or any other sound devices on your system. Use the 1010 exclusively for recording purposes or whatever interface you are trying to use. Actually, I find it better to keep the built-in PC soundcard activated. I then assign that to Windows and use my audio interface exclusively for audio software. That way, Windows doesn't try to interfere with the audio interface. Plus, I can still use Windows Media Player and other Windows software that requires audio output. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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Leee
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:37:58
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Wow! Thanks guys for the replies. I've been using Sonar for years and have recorded dozens of songs (with vocals), and I'm just learning this? I think the reason I am noticing this now is because I also got a new microphone that requires a phantom power supply, and I'm guessing that makes it a little hotter than the old Shure mic I was using. So all that time I was recording vocal tracks, I was never adjusting the record levels! I astound myself sometimes! :( Thanks again for the replies!
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:40:04
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Hi, Scott. I'll defer to your wisdom but I've disabled all actual windows "sounds" (like warnings, bells, whistes, farts, etc) so my system is completely silent. Then WMP and other programs run through my interface. Seems to be working well so far but I could see how some folks might want to keep their on board sound device active. On my old system before I knew any better I would have to re route everything to use WMP for playback so I just find having it all coming from one source easier. Again though I defer to your judgement on this as I'm still learning. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:42:25
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@Leee... It happens. I've had hundreds of "D'oh" moments since I've joined this forum. This place rules. Have fun.
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 15:44:53
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Oh and if I really need to get at my onboard sound it's only a couple clicks away VIA the control panel... well, God Mode actually. Much quicker than the standard 7 way.
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garrigus
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 16:16:38
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Beepster
Oh and if I really need to get at my onboard sound it's only a couple clicks away VIA the control panel... well, God Mode actually. Much quicker than the standard 7 way. Hey Beepster... Oh, no... I didn't mine was the only way. That's just what has worked for me.  If having everything routed through your interface works for you, that's excellent. I know that other people have had trouble with Windows interfering with the sample rate/bit depth when it plays audio through the interface because they were recording projects with different settings. That's one of the main reasons I keep mine separate. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 16:22:22
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Interesting. Hadn't heard about that one but I'll be keeping an out for it. Not sure why Windows would try to default to something else if everything else is disabled but then again I pretty much only use this system for audio. Maybe certain programs get confused when trying to deal not so onboard sound devices. Anyway... hope you have been well Mr. Garrigus. ;-)
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 19:00:28
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Hey Beepster,
I have gone back and forth with disable/enable on-board sound. I currently run with it disabled, so that my audio interface handles all audio in Windows, period. Please note that for me I made this change a long long time ago, in a galaxy far away.
At the moment, I only have one set of speakers that are worth plugging in, unless I want to break out the gigging gear PA speakers - which I believe is a bit of overkill for just wanting to play some Carpenters song while sequencing up some drone bass track in Sonar. So for me, I just run things separately - I do not fire up WMP if I have things to do in Sonar.
On the other hand, getting some cheap desktop speakers for $20 would allow me to actually benefit from having the ability to run all kinds of different audio programs. (I have a program called the Amazing Slow Downer, which is a fabulous program for slowing songs down without changing pitch, for learning complex or fast technical parts of tunes I want to cover - I could decode a clip in that program and go sequence up the parts immediately in Sonar by adding the desktop speakers - DOH - another trip to Radio Shack or Best Buy tonight).
I DID learn to silence the Windows bodily function noises (startup, shutdown, sun's coming up, I hit too many keys, I didn't hit enough keys, etc.). I treated a rather large audience to an EPIC volume level of the Windows XP startup sounds once on a gig. That cured me.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 19:33:03
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Me too  I turn off Windows sounds, but I keep the on board sound card active and run WMP and Windows audio though it. I started doing this because when I would bring up Youtube or WMP while sonar was on, and having everything going through my audio interface I would get sample rate problems, slowing down the playback time in Sonar until I closed both and Opens up Sonar only. With a separate sound card for WMP and everything not DAW, I never have that problem, I can reference things while SONAR is on in WMP or online, etc., which is very useful sometimes. Lance garrigus
Beepster
Oh and disable windows sound or any other sound devices on your system. Use the 1010 exclusively for recording purposes or whatever interface you are trying to use. Actually, I find it better to keep the built-in PC soundcard activated. I then assign that to Windows and use my audio interface exclusively for audio software. That way, Windows doesn't try to interfere with the audio interface. Plus, I can still use Windows Media Player and other Windows software that requires audio output.
Scott
--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2013/06/03 19:41:48
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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John
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 19:43:15
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jb101
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 20:49:07
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I use Scott's setup, too.
I can have Windows sounds, tutorial vids, background music etc. through one set of speakers, and just switch the speakers off with one button if I'm tracking. It has worked well for me here.
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mudgel
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/03 22:14:11
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The important thing is to disable Windows sounds in your main audio device as Windows sounds are 16 bit/44.1khz amd Windows will reset Sonar to that by default and youll constantly be wondering why Sonar wont play 24 bit audio or anything other than 44.1 sample rate.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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raumfisch
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/04 02:36:45
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garrigus
Beepster
Oh and disable windows sound or any other sound devices on your system. Use the 1010 exclusively for recording purposes or whatever interface you are trying to use. Actually, I find it better to keep the built-in PC soundcard activated. I then assign that to Windows and use my audio interface exclusively for audio software. That way, Windows doesn't try to interfere with the audio interface. Plus, I can still use Windows Media Player and other Windows software that requires audio output.
How would I do that with Win 7? I may sound noobish, but I am not able to figure that out atm ... 
Core i5 - 2410M Radeon HD 6470M 6GB RAM RME Babyface Sonar X2a WIN7
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scook
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/04 02:53:08
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☄ Helpfulby raumfisch 2013/06/05 05:11:45
Leave the internal soundard setup as the windows default with Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound right-click on speakers and set as default device. Then configure the DAW audio interface in the DAW. At least, that is what works for me in Win7. I also disable the OS sound effects Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Change system sounds select "no sounds" from sound scheme drop down.
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Beepster
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/04 16:49:55
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Good info in here. I guess I've never encountered these types of issues on the new system because it is pretty much used exclusively for Sonar but I do seem to recall a couple instances early on where my samplerate/bit depth seemed to have changed for no reason so I probably played something in WMP or whatever and it forced the Scarlett to comply. Didn't think that would be possible without my intervention.
In general anything I need to do that does not involve Sonar gets done on my laptop and if I need to hear audio in any kind of superior quality I just plug in my studio cans to that. I will be keeping all this in mind for the future though. Particularly if I am trying to listen to product demos through my monitors on the big system. Cheers.
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gustabo
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/04 18:53:58
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garrigus
Actually, I find it better to keep the built-in PC soundcard activated. I then assign that to Windows and use my audio interface exclusively for audio software. That way, Windows doesn't try to interfere with the audio interface. Plus, I can still use Windows Media Player and other Windows software that requires audio output.
Scott
I agree with Scott and I took it one step further, using Pedalboard which is a VST host and Virtual Cable which is exactly what it's name is, I run my built-in card through ARC so everything off web pages, cd's, mp3's, etc. are corrected through ARC.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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raumfisch
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/05 05:12:32
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scook
Leave the internal soundard setup as the windows default with Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound right-click on speakers and set as default device. Then configure the DAW audio interface in the DAW. At least, that is what works for me in Win7. I also disable the OS sound effects Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Change system sounds select "no sounds" from sound scheme drop down.
hey thanks, works for me now!
Core i5 - 2410M Radeon HD 6470M 6GB RAM RME Babyface Sonar X2a WIN7
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garrigus
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Re:Controlling input level on Microphone
2013/06/05 10:33:17
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