ULTRABRA
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Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
I'm using busses to group similar instruments together prior to sending to the Master bus. I have a problem controlling the reverb.
My example is like this :
- 3 string libraries, each having a different level of reverb controlled via sends to a Reverb bus.
- the 3 string libraries all got to a "Strings Bus", which then goes to the Master bus.
My problem is that if I use the "Strings Bus" level fader to control the overall level of the strings in the overall mix, the reverb level is not affected (as it is controlled via each string library send). So, if I take the "Strings Bus" volume down to for example zero, I will still hear the reverb.
What I want is to control the overall level of all the strings via one fader, and also the relative level of the reverb. Is it possible? If not, how do other people handle this issue?
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brundlefly
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 01:12:31
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I think I would collect all the sends in a pre-Reverb bus and group that bus' volume with the Strings bus.
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 01:37:18
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Aha, have the Reverb send fader grouped with the Strings Bus fader ... sounds a good idea --- I'm not sure though, how I would "collect all the sends in a pre-Reverb bus" - does that mean have a different reverb instance for each group bus (ie one for strings, one for drums etc...), then individual instruments within a group can have different reverb amounts (via send) but the overall reverb level would match the group level ..?
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Keni
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 03:43:35
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I'm not with access right now...
But here's a few thoughts... Isn't it possible to have a send from the group? If so, send to another bus where you place your reverb, then return the reverb bus to the string bus?
I don't remember if we can do that...
But a simple way might be to place a reverb as an effect on the string bus and set a wet/dry blend . Then everything sent to the buss will be getting a proportionate amount of reverb...
Keni
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 05:28:24
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Hi Keni - thanks for the suggestion. In my example, I would want to have control of different amounts of reverb for each instrument that goes to the Strings bus - so not the same amount of reverb for the group as a whole.
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benjaminfrog
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 07:09:24
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All you have to do is route the output of the reverb bus to the string bus. If you're using that reverb bus for tracks other than strings, you may want to think about creating a second reverb bus, so that changing the string bus volume doesn't change the reverb level of those other tracks. Otherwise, you should be good to go.
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lfm
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 07:13:48
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Let each string library track have it's own sends - since you need individual control.
These sends go to a reverb bus for strings.
The return of this reverb bus go to strings submix bus.
So what you have then is ability to raise submix bus fader and still get the same reverb mix - what is usually handled through VCA groups in some daws. In this manner you don't need that.
And if you want to raise reverb individually on a single library you do that as well.
Or group them if you want to move them all.
There are very advanced abilities in Sonar for grouping - if to move by dB or movement etc.
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codamedia
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 07:30:46
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benjaminfrog
All you have to do is route the output of the reverb bus to the string bus. If you're using that reverb bus for tracks other than strings, you may want to think about creating a second reverb bus, so that changing the string bus volume doesn't change the reverb level of those other tracks. Otherwise, you should be good to go.
+1 ... that is what I would do...
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 07:44:32
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Great, thanks for all the input. I will now make a seperate reverb bus for each of my groups (with instance of the same reverb preset there), and then route the output to its relevant Group Bus rather than the Master.
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ULTRABRA
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 10:19:33
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I tested it and it works OK except ... if I have FX on the Strings Bus, they will now also effect the reverb. I guess I could make a 3rd bus which the unFXd reverb is sent to, and also the Strings Bus is routed through on the way to Master, and have this buss's fader control overall volume of both ... though this sounds like its way to complex ...
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brundlefly
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 11:43:18
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ULTRABRA
if I have FX on the Strings Bus, they will now also effect the reverb.
In addition to assuming you would want to continue using the Reverb bus universally for other tracks, that's another reason why I suggested using a pre-Reverb bus to collect the sends from the string tracks. What I meant by that is you create another bus that outputs to the Reverb bus and call it something like String Sends. Then group its volume with the Strings bus volume, and re-assign the sends from the String tracks to this bus. This way you still have individual control of the send volumes but their contribution to the Reverb bus is tied to the output level of the Strings bus, and the Reverb bus still returns to Master in parallel with the Strings bus as it should and can still be used by other track sends. I think this solves all the problems.
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Keni
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 11:48:14
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ULTRABRA
Hi Keni - thanks for the suggestion. In my example, I would want to have control of different amounts of reverb for each instrument that goes to the Strings bus - so not the same amount of reverb for the group as a whole.
Hi Ultrabra... Then the already posted idea of simply sending from each track to a reverb bus... And if so desired, grouping any sends in their' relative settings should fit the bill...? Keni
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Keni
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 12:11:43
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ULTRABRA
I tested it and it works OK except ... if I have FX on the Strings Bus, they will now also effect the reverb. I guess I could make a 3rd bus which the unFXd reverb is sent to, and also the Strings Bus is routed through on the way to Master, and have this buss's fader control overall volume of both ... though this sounds like its way to complex ...
Then simply return the reverb bus to the master? Keni
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benjaminfrog
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 12:53:21
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brundlefly
ULTRABRA
if I have FX on the Strings Bus, they will now also effect the reverb.
In addition to assuming you would want to continue using the Reverb bus universally for other tracks, that's another reason why I suggested using a pre-Reverb bus to collect the sends from the string tracks.
What I meant by that is you create another bus that outputs to the Reverb bus and call it something like String Sends. Then group its volume with the Strings bus volume, and re-assign the sends from the String tracks to this bus.
This way you still have individual control of the send volumes but their contribution to the Reverb bus is tied to the output level of the Strings bus, and the Reverb bus still returns to Master in parallel with the Strings bus as it should and can still be used by other track sends.
I think this solves all the problems.
That's a great solution! I like that better than my suggestion of routing the reverb bus to the string bus, as it allows for more flexibility and only requires a single reverb bus. I'll be using that approach myself from now on. Thanks, brundlefly!
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michael diemer
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 15:31:25
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I recently started doing reverb this way: I "midi learn" the reverb (or wet/dry) button on the native reverb for each synth. Thus I can control the exact amount of native reverb for each instrument, using the purple sonar reverb sliders (Sonar 8.5). Then, I have each synth routed to a Reverb Bus, on which I have Spaces Reverb (Northwest Hall). I can use my ears to try to equalize the reverb of all instruments, before it gets to the reverb bus to be glued together. This way I can compensate for the differences in libraries (for example, East West SO very wet; Vienna Sp Ed very dry). My synths are: Aria; Play; Kontakt with CS2; Dim Pro and TTS-1. I can adjust each synths native reverb with the slider, equalizing them as much as possible, so that when they get sent to the Spaces Reverb bus, they will sound like the are all in the same hall.
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interpolated
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Re: Controlling reverb via sends using Group busses
2015/04/07 16:00:50
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I treat reverb as separate entities on their own bus or busses if I am using true stereo presets. This means a separate export can be made and the reverb can be turned up or down, possibly re-equalised when it comes to mastering.
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